New AMI Model = Seller's Authenticate Own Lots?

[mvandor]

so i've lost my "mantle of objectivity" have i? tell me michael, was it intact when i took the time to help you out with your tomlinson and montana helmets? when i explained to you what to look for in fake modern helmets so you wouldn't get taken again?

guu will be offering some helmets in their upcoming fall auction, just as lambeauleeper will be offering helmets on ebay. if i now comment on lambeauleeper will it also strike you as little more than an attack on a competitor?

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Robert, yes, if you now have a financial interest in an auction business (I assume you're not donating your time/expertise to someone else's business), any comments you make going forward will be viewed differently. You take that as a personal afront? It's not, it would be true for Jesus Christ himself, it's a very fair statement that has nothing to do with you personally.

Of course, if what sounds like a substantial contribution of your time IS sans any monetary remuneration, that colors your PERCEIVED objectivity less in my opinion, however your heavy involvement in GUU Auctions would still cast a cloud over your criticisms of competing auction houses.

Does that lessen my appreciation for what you bring to GUU members with your expertise, or what you specifically have assisted me or others on here? Of course not. Does it lessen my respect for you? Not at all, you're #1 in my list here.

But it does create what us old schoolers used to consider a "conflict of interest" when you post criticisms of what would now appear to be competitors.

If the roles were reversed, I would honestly expect you to say the same about me.

[suicide_squeeze]

so i've lost my "mantle of objectivity" have i? tell me michael, was it intact when i took the time to help you out with your tomlinson and montana helmets? when i explained to you what to look for in fake modern helmets so you wouldn't get taken again?

guu will be offering some helmets in their upcoming fall auction, just as lambeauleeper will be offering helmets on ebay. if i now comment on lambeauleeper will it also strike you as little more than an attack on a competitor?

...

Robert,

As any seasoned collector is aware, anything that is stated by a knowledgeable hobbiest like yourself who posesses deep insight into the authenticity of the items being offered into the hobby is appreciated.

If what you discuss is true, and what you present are facts that back your statements......I don't care if you're selling tickets to the next "Jimmy Carter Communism Tea-Party" gathering......it has deep relevance and is welcome by any collector.

Don't ever stop posting. It would be a serious loss to the forum members who enjoy this site.

[suicide_squeeze]

Robert, yes, if you now have a financial interest in an auction business (I assume you're not donating your time/expertise to someone else's business), any comments you make going forward will be viewed differently. You take that as a personal afront? It's not, it would be true for Jesus Christ himself, it's a very fair statement that has nothing to do with you personally.

Of course, if what sounds like a substantial contribution of your time IS sans any monetary remuneration, that colors your PERCEIVED objectivity less in my opinion, however your heavy involvement in GUU Auctions would still cast a cloud over your criticisms of competing auction houses.

Does that lessen my appreciation for what you bring to GUU members with your expertise, or what you specifically have assisted me or others on here? Of course not. Does it lessen my respect for you? Not at all, you're #1 in my list here.

But it does create what us old schoolers used to consider a "conflict of interest" when you post criticisms of what would now appear to be competitors.

If the roles were reversed, I would honestly expect you to say the same about me.

mvandor,

With all due respect to a good forum member as I consider you are, if Robert states facts backed up by evidence related to them, how can that shed any "attack" on another auction house, or tarnish his comments on items that are unquestionable bad, simply because he is performing a very needed service for the auctions here on the GUU? I see it as a plus to the hobby in every way, shape, and form. He has shown obvious and overwhelming knowledge over the so-called "experts" in the hobby (at least in regards to football memorabilia).

This forum has exposed and displayed in black and white miles and miles of evidence against the competency of the authenticators utilized by the major auction houses in the industry. In some cases, the very fact that the "authenticators" are referred to as such, IMO, is borderline breaking the law. They are rediculously inept at identifying what they are holding in thier own hands as to the true authenticity of what the piece is.

I have no problem with whatever the service, pay, arrangements, or otherwise Robert has in regards to being "employed" by GUU to work with or on their auctions. It can only add to the integrity of this site, their auction experience, and help to protect the collecting public from buying an item that turns up being something other than what it is offered to be.

It's an absolute win-win for everyone who uses this site. And I would go as far as saying we all will never see the day where Robert would cross the line and sell his soul to the devil for financial gain while authenticating "garbage" in an auction, like so many of the so called expert authenticators have done. There just wouldn't be any reason for that, as he would be exposed by the very same site that he is serving in no time whatsoever. Then, and only then, would he lose cred here. I don't see it, his integrity appears to be too high for that.

Thumbs up to GUU for utilizing his knowledge. It's all good in my book.

[kingjammy24]

robert,

you're too sharp a guy to believe that simply because you find something enjoyable that others necessarily would as well. practically the only universal truth about every consigner is that they want to maximize the hammer price of their item and one way to do so is to present the item as impressively as possible. this requires skill, knowledge and talent that many don't have and have no interest in learning. you seem to believe it's fun and not a burden trying to present your item as well as it would appear at REA or Heritage with a copy of MS Paint and a 4 megapixel powershot. (hell i don't even have a mannequin. but maybe that's part of the "fun" of it all..going and purchasing a few thousand dollars worth of professional equipment and then learning how to use it all). i guess if you believe it's such a joy then i expect you'll be asking future GUU consigners to take their own photos. why not right? wouldn't pose any burden to anyone because everyone loves photography. at the same time, it'd save chris cavalier the time and expense. when they complain that their items weren't professionally presented, just tell them to think of all the fun they had.

"if ami is now acting as an escrow service then what's changed in terms of ensuring that they distribute the cash they've collected?"

in this situation, a proper escrow service would involve more than the distribution of cash. it would involve the distribution of goods. what good is it to bidders if AMI is only collecting their cash but not the consigner's goods? IF ami was operating as a proper escrow service, then your suggestion that consigners could "..decide whether or not they wish to honor the deal once the auction is over, once they receive their cash" would be impossible.

"..seems to me the only way ami was able to convince some consignors that they would receive the cash for their lots once the auction ended was to allow the consignors to keep their lots until cash was in their hands, no?"

i don't know. later in your post you pose the same scenario and then almost rhetorically ask me "would ami really allow this?" so i don't know what you really believe is happening. personally, i wasn't sure how AMI was able to convince anyone to do business with them. hence why i asked if roger gibson could provide some insight into what compelled him to do business with such a company.

"..but you consider this work and a burden while i consider an absurd opportunity, not work, made possible only because of ami's predicament. you can't convince me otherwise and i can't convince you - which is the sort of thing that makes life more interesting."

tell you what.. offer your own customers an "absurd opportunity" to become "willing and active participants" in the food they eat. how? make them cook it all themselves. after all, it is their food so they've got a vested interest in trying to make it good. your job? exactly what AMI does..just sit back and charge them for doing the work...err..having the "fun". don't know how to cook? hey, many of AMI's customers have little clue about professional photography but they're probably having a blast learning! did your jersey come out looking crappy and thus fail to fetch a great price? no different than your food coming out crappy because you had no clue how to operate the broiler. hey the AMI folks probably had no clue what an f-stop on a nikon d90 was the first time either. it's always fun when you have no clue what you're doing!

"..creative writing and photography are two wonderfully joyous pursuits."

the assumption being that since you personally enjoy it then everyone else does as well? that it's a wonderfully joyous thing when all you want is make your roger staubach helmet look great and yet everything keeps coming out blurry and dark so you spend 5 hours trolling photography forums without any clue as to what any of the terms mean? or engaging in creative writing when you feel immensely inept with the written word? i agree..couldn't be a burden to anyone as it's well known that all collectors love professional photography and creative writing and are greatly skilled at both. oy. one man's joy is another man's burden.

rudy.

[earlywynnfan]

Why does this thread sound like an argument? It started off so well.

Ken

[xpress34]

Wow... maybe I missed something in trolling through all of the stating and rehashing of AMI's new 'business model', but here is the very eerie feeling I'm coming away with...

It has been made VERY clear here that Victor has screwed consignors and creditors 8 ways to Sunday - correct???

And one of the big points is that the 20% Buyer's Premium is going to go to pay off some of those debts and consignors - correct???

And the current consignors get to keep their item UNTIL they get paid - correct???

And finally, AMI is acting as their own 'so-called' Escrow (and as was stated earlier, they are not doing what a true Escrow service would do) in collecting the money for the consignors - correct???

These all lead to one VERY disturbing conclusion for me - as it should for ANY bidders:

Let's say AMI has 100 items 'consigned' (for lack of a better or 'real' term) to their current auction and assume that EVERY item sells and AMI collects on every auction... now, the 'consignors' still have their items, so technically, AMI doesn't owe them for their items - they still possess them... what is to keep this from being their LAST auction and them just skipping town with the proceeds that they helped increase with 'shill bidding' (hidden reserve)???

I mean yes, they could have done it in the past, but now, they are collecting money for items they don't even possess?!?!?

Compared to everything else I've ever read about AMI, this scenario doesn't seem too crazy or bizarre to me...

Just my .02

- Chris

[aeneas01]

so i've lost my "mantle of objectivity" have i? tell me michael, was it intact when i took the time to help you out with your tomlinson and montana helmets? when i explained to you what to look for in fake modern helmets so you wouldn't get taken again (by the likes of lambeauleeper)? guu will be offering some helmets in their upcoming fall auction, just as lambeauleeper will be offering helmets on ebay. if i now comment on lambeauleeper will it also strike you as little more than an attack on a competitor?

Robert, yes, if you now have a financial interest in an auction business... any comments you make going forward will be viewed differently.... your heavy involvement in GUU Auctions would still cast a cloud over your criticisms of competing auction houses... (it creates) what us old schoolers used to consider a "conflict of interest" when you post criticisms of what would now appear to be competitors.

interesting, michael.... you recently posted the following in response to a forum member asking about an ebay helmet offered by lambeauleeper: "LL is an ebayer that puts together some very good replicas of HOF NFL players, but then sells them misleadingly for big bucks..."

do you feel collectors should consider your criticism of lambeauleeper "clouded" and "little more than an attack on a competitor" as well given you also sell football helmets on ebay? further, do you feel that you lack objectivity when it comes to commenting on bad helmets because you also engage in the buying and selling of helmets? and finally michael, do you feel that your "old school" sensibilities regarding conflicts of interest pertain to you as well?

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[mvandor]

interesting, michael.... you recently posted the following in response to a forum member asking about an ebay helmet offered by lambeauleeper: "LL is an ebayer that puts together some very good replicas of HOF NFL players, but then sells them misleadingly for big bucks..."

do you feel collectors should consider your criticism of lambeauleeper "clouded" and "little more than an attack on a competitor" as well given you also sell football helmets on ebay? further, do you feel that you lack objectivity when it comes to commenting on bad helmets because you also engage in the buying and selling of helmets? and finally michael, do you feel that your "old school" sensibilities regarding conflicts of interest pertain to you as well?

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Robert, you're far too bright not to get my point, so you must be in denial.

I don't sell lids as a business, so as you know, the analogy is not accurate.

If I negatively reviewed one of the competitors to my actual business which is my livelihood (I have no side businesses) on a forum, although I might be 100% accurate, I would expect readers to take my opinion with a grain of salt because I'm speaking about a competitor. That simply doesn't scream "objectivity".

You're obviously taking my comments as some personal attack on your integrity, which they are not.

[aeneas01]

You're obviously taking my comments as some personal attack on your integrity, which they are not.

news flash michael - when you presumptuously and publicly accuse someone of lacking objectivity because of money, not only is it a personal attack on that person's integrity but on their character as well. do you really need that explained to you? and when you claim the same rules don't apply to you, that's the height of hypocrisy. do you really need that explained to you as well?

look michael, if you want to leave the knitting circle and join the men for cigars and brandy, i'm all for it - but try to bring something interesting, useful and helpful to the table instead of poorly crafted devil's advocate arguments and snide and flippant remarks. honestly, i can't remember the last time you've contributed something interesting and uniquely yours to the forum - click on your name, scroll down to "find all posts by mvandor" and you'll see what i mean.

frankly, whether you know it or not, you're one of those internet forum guys that needs to feel relevant yet rarely has anything relevant to contribute. as a result you self-promote, claim the expertise of others as yours, wade out of your depth and jump into any conversation for the sake of jumping, without thinking. and it gets you into trouble. fix this and it would be a good start. and then try to see the forest through the trees rather than bite the hands that feed you.

and in the meantime, for the love of roberto clemente, try to stop throwing folks under the bus when you clumsily try to come across as an insider with something to offer - for example, you recently posted about an individual who was willing to discretely help out honest collectors despite considerable risk. you then, as if to show you were uniquely in the know, proceeded to identify the individual by name, identified his his business and volunteered his email address. good grief...

to the rest of you guys, thanks very much for your support - and thanks to all of you guys that dropped me emails offering the same. really, it's very much appreciated.

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[aeneas01]

Why does this thread sound like an argument?

i hear ya ken and i wish it hadn't gone in that direction...

hidden (secret) reserves, auction houses bidding on lots on behalf of their consignors, consignors allowed to bid on their own items, viewable/accessible max (up to bids), consignors evaluating their own items, auction house claiming they're evaluating items when they're not - it goes on and on. and it's going on at this very moment. you would think that would be plenty to discuss...

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