OT: 30 for 30 on ESPN: "Without Bias"

[Dewey2007]

I'm watching the ESPN show 30 for 30 "Without Bias" about the death of Len Bias and it its bringing back so many memories.

As a young sports fan at the time it happened this is probably the most tragic death of a player that I can remember. Probably because I was only 17 at the time when it happened and I followed the ACC pretty closely even though I lived in California. Even though he got drafted by the Celtics that didn't matter much because he was going to be the shit when he got to the NBA. I just wanted to see him play.

Anyhow, I know all of us have our own tragic sports memories that have left us shaking our heads and thinking of what could have been. This happened 23 years ago and it is still so vivid to me.

Damn shame...RIP Len

[suicide_squeeze]

I'm watching the ESPN show 30 for 30 "Without Bias" about the death of Len Bias and it its bringing back so many memories.

As a young sports fan at the time it happened this is probably the most tragic death of a player that I can remember. Probably because I was only 17 at the time when it happened and I followed the ACC pretty closely even though I lived in California. Even though he got drafted by the Celtics that didn't matter much because he was going to be the shit when he got to the NBA. I just wanted to see him play.

Anyhow, I know all of us have our own tragic sports memories that have left us shaking our heads and thinking of what could have been. This happened 23 years ago and it is still so vivid to me.

Damn shame...RIP Len

Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

[ndevlin]

Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

Seriously??? You're kidding right? Have you ever had a family member die, no matter what the cause was? Obviously not I guess.

[suicide_squeeze]

Seriously??? You're kidding right? Have you ever had a family member die, no matter what the cause was? Obviously not I guess.

You guys are a trip.

I used your quote, Nate, because you are the the latest and quickest to jump on me when I post. Whatever turns your screws, partner.

Look, where did I ever say a youth gone bad with drugs doesn't deserve a life after rehab??

All I am saying is that I am sick and tired of this liberal attitude, saturated in society, that is ruining the world we live in. And that's coming from a guy who is NOT that conservative. I am a middle of the roader.

But there is one thing I have NO patience for.....and that's weak individuals who are drug users. I mean, my GOD, that's like talking about drunk driving. It's 2009 people.....HELLO! If you haven't figured out drugs do damage and kill.....then you're not paying attention. They also cause shoplifting, ruin homes, families, turn users into murderers......and on and on and on.

Did I do recreational drugs when I was in high school. Yeah, I smoked some pot and drank at parties with my friends. Occasionally. But I was into my life, my girlfriend, my sports. I had a life. I wasn't about to "F" it up because some scumbag walked up to me at a party, who wanted me to become hooked on whatever he was selling so I would buy from him on a regular basis. I would just as soon enjoy watching that kind of a guy step off a curb in front of a RTD bus.....if you catch my drift. Sorry, I was smarter than that.

But as I type this, I can honestly say that I have never done cocaine, or any of these other sick designer drugs. And I have absolutely NO sympathy for anyone who has died from choosing to put that crap in their body.

If you guys have a problem with that, then that's O.K. Nowhere did I ever say we had to agree on this. And I would never impose my will on anyone....except my kids. I won't let them kill themselves because of weak character. Or stupidity from being a drug-using scumbag.

Len Bias had the whole world....a guaranteed HUGE contract, and the NBA writers just waiting to write his life out. And he ended it because he was a drug user. If you guys can't see the problem with that, I can't help you. Was it tragic? Of course. Was it dignified? NO. It's the way LOSERS die.

Am I cold hearted? Not in the least. I just call the shots the way I see them. And even though I have no reason to apologize to any of you who see it differently, I will. I am sorry I share a different opinion on this than you do. But maybe if more of us felt the way I DO about it, and we cared more for eachother and didn't passively allow our children to participate in something as blatantly STUPID as putting powerful physiologically-altering and impairing DRUGS in their body for recreational stimulation......than we would have HAD Len Bias around for you all to enjoy.

The guy didn't have enough in life to look forward to, so he took drugs??? And DIED?

And I'm a cold hearted SOB???

Wow.

You guys need to maybe take a bit of inventory in your own lives. Sounds like a few of you have been fortunate enough to dodge a few bullets on your way to growing up. Congrats.

Now go look after your children. You never know when the next Len Bias may emerge.

[frikativ54]

All I am saying is that I am sick and tired of this liberal attitude, saturated in society, that is ruining the world we live in. And that's coming from a guy who is NOT that conservative. I am a middle of the roader.

You're not that conservative?!?!

[Dewey2007]

Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

Steve, you have pretty strong opinions so I'll just leave it at that. It's not how the man died that matters. How many of us were his age doing stupid things that could have killed us. I can look at something like this from a different viewpoint then you due to things I won't get into on here but anytime someone young dies like this it is very tragic. It's not like he was gang banging or drug dealing. He was just celebrating with his boys because he got drafted by the NBA champions and he died of drug complications. Sure he may have used drugs recreationly but he was no different then thousands of other college kids at the time. I just mentioned it because it was a sports related death of a great player and one that still resonates with me. I can say with pretty strong conviction that what happened to Len Bias kept me from ever wanting to use drugs.

Anyhow, that's enough out of me. Your opinions on this are different then mine and that's OK. Happy collecting!!

[kudu]

Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

Heartless comment. So young people should never have the chance for drug rehab and have a second chance at a drug free life? I guess the world doesnt need Josh Hamilton anymore.

[frikativ54]

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

It's genetics, not character, that determines drug use/abuse. Talk to former addicts and you will find out. Many are good people that did things that led to horrible outcomes. I always feel badly when people die...even if it's due to drugs.

[suicide_squeeze]

It's genetics, not character, that determines drug use/abuse. Talk to former addicts and you will find out. Many are good people that did things that led to horrible outcomes. I always feel badly when people die...even if it's due to drugs.

I do too. I feel badly. I really do.

But I can't find myself asking "Why?" Or thinking how tragic it was.....how unbelievable it must be for the family.....how terrible it is for the fans who lost a star.......when that person of interest took drugs which caused the disaster.

It's old news. Figure it OUT already. Drugs kill users, not "genetics". Len Bias' heart didn't stop because of "genetics".

Just like accidents kill. Not lack of "warning labels". Somewhere in time we lost our strength as a society to accept the pitfalls in life, and we started turning our sorrows to expensive attorneys who have f'ed up our entire existences. We have sacrificed "responsibility" with "judgements". Great. Nice.

And you all wonder why paying for insurance has become burdensome?

Figure it out, society, before it's too late. It's old already.

[frikativ54]

It's old news. Figure it OUT already. Drugs kill users, not "genetics". Len Bias' heart didn't stop because of "genetics".

Just like accidents kill. Not lack of "warning labels". Somewhere in time we lost our strength as a society to accept the pitfalls in life, and we started turning our sorrows to expensive attorneys who have f'ed up our entire existences. We have sacrificed "responsibility" with "judgements". Great. Nice.[/quote]

Why does everything need to be about a nebulous notion of responsibility? For me, rather than judging people, it makes more sense to ask why this is happening, and realize that complex factors lead to drug use and abuse. As you may or may not realize, addiction has a biological basis.

That's not to say that there aren't other factors involved. Societal attitudes toward drugs play a part in this, as do people's past history of addiction and mental illness. You keep clinging to concepts like "responsibility", yet you have not explained why we have the kind of agency that your notion of responsibility is predicated upon.

And you all wonder why paying for insurance has become burdensome?

Figure it out, society, before it's too late. It's old already.

I don't see any evidence that society is going to hell. Things are just fine in America.