Stan Musial Possible 1962-1963 gamer

[Birdbats]

I'm not a jersey expert, but looking back at some old photos, there's an obvious characteristic from the Musial jersey that suggests it is from the mid-1960s and not one from his playing days. Here's the telltale sign -- the tail of the first bird is in front of the bat, a change made in about 1967. On a jersey from 1962 or 1963, the tail would be behind the bat. The tail was in front of the bat until just a few years ago when the logo was redesigned and the tail was placed behind the bat again, similar to the way it was during Musial's days.

Jeff
http://www.birdbats.com

[apujols04]

Jeff, Thanks for your help. Do you think this jersey would have any value if autographed with a HOF inscription? If I am going to frame and keep the jersey for a while on my wall, would you recommend unstitching the 62 year stitch out of the jersey just to be sure it doesn't deceive anybody if I ever sell it down the line. Other forum members---is it ethical for me to ever sell the jersey once autographed by musial-- as a different players authentic game style/possibly used--but changed to look like a Vintage Musial---signed throwback jersey, not as a gamer? if so,what would something like this be worth?

I really want to know if I should remove the 62 red stitching?

[scottanservitz]

Ok. First off, I've posted before, just not since GameUsedForum switched over to this site. I was not making a joke about the Musial. I am very envious. It looks legit to me. I am not an expert on flannels by any means. My buddy has a '63 Billy Goodman Red Sox flannel. It is not the heavy flannel you mentioned used in the '40s. I think it looks awesome. You are doing the right thing here in getting as much information as you can. As far as getting an opinion, #1 it is going to cost you, but in the long run it would be well worth it. #2, be careful who you authenticate it with. Dave Grob is very knowledgable with Mears. He has written numerous articles in SCD and is experienced with older jerseys. Whoever or whatever you do, it will be well worth it. I would love to come across a find like you had. People will be naysayers all they want. Things like this do happen. And I like when the average guy who really loves the hobby hits it big. Good luck in your endeavors and keep us posted. -Scott

[apujols04]

Ok. First off, I've posted before, just not since GameUsedForum switched over to this site. I was not making a joke about the Musial. I am very envious. It looks legit to me. I am not an expert on flannels by any means. My buddy has a '63 Billy Goodman Red Sox flannel. It is not the heavy flannel you mentioned used in the '40s. I think it looks awesome. You are doing the right thing here in getting as much information as you can. As far as getting an opinion, #1 it is going to cost you, but in the long run it would be well worth it. #2, be careful who you authenticate it with. Dave Grob is very knowledgable with Mears. He has written numerous articles in SCD and is experienced with older jerseys. Whoever or whatever you do, it will be well worth it. I would love to come across a find like you had. People will be naysayers all they want. Things like this do happen. And I like when the average guy who really loves the hobby hits it big. Good luck in your endeavors and keep us posted. -Scott

I had it looked at and it does appear somebody may have removed a name. the only thing is that is was a single number which was removed so I need a special light to see it. I guess it could have been a musial before and then they made the numbers and name smaller. I will have to keep checking, but everyone seems to think the birds are all wrong on the bat.

[scottanservitz]

The good thing about this situation is you can do the research finding photos of Musial in the time frames you need. Being a hall of famer, there will be shots of him in the jersey with many being dated. If the bird is wrong, then that would be a definite indicator. Being that the players only had a couple jerseys for the season, if yours is legit you should be able to tell from the picture. It will be a time consuming process. But hopefully you can come to a somewhat valid conclusion one way or the other. If it were a modern jersey it would be a more difficult task, since players wear sometimes multitudes of different jerseys. When players get close to milestones such as 500 homers and 3000 hits, it seems they change even during the games to have more items available for the Hall of Fame or themselves or even the market to make $ on. I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Back in the day that was not even thought about. Another thing to think about is the recycling of equipment being sent down to the minors to save teams money. These surface from time to time and are somewhat traceable as well. Anyway, I hope you can find evidence to help you in your endeavor. Good luck.

[apujols04]

It is a shame Stan put a 5 on accident and he had to change it into a 6, but this jersey is a sweet looking jersey now, no matter what the authenticators say about if it was ever game worn by ANY cardinals player in the 60's.

[apujols04]

[both-teams-played-hard]

WARNING! THIS IS A RE-FRESHED YEAR OLD POST...

MEARS has this tagging as being from 1963-later. They also say they could always be off by a year or two as more info is discovered. Any opinions on this Musial jersey?

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Back in the olden days, I sure was naive. I thought these jerseys were sold to this guy by an eldery couple, cause they wanted them to go to a "youngsportscollector". I just noticed the eBay watermark in the bottom corner of the tagging photo. I feel like a broke Sherlock Holmes for not noticing this 11 months ago. What a wild goose chase this forum was put on! I am embarressed by some of my comments on this thread. The chain-stitched name-in-tail seems to resemble many different "doctored" superstar baseball jerseys sold on eBay over the past year (Ripken, Munson, Carlton-everone remembers, right?) If we were told these were bought on eBay, it might have saved some time. Flash-forward to Vintage Authentics current auction:http://vintageauthentics.at.truition...aunbr=76378097
This shirt has re-appeared with LOAs from some of the hobby's finest. Now it's a coach's jersey with restored NOB and number. Does anyone have knowledge of Musial's coaching career with St. Louis?? Was this just added to the auction description to fit the age of the Rawlings tag and the logo change to "CARDINALS". Boy! I was a tool.
Also, is a MEARS "3" similar to an eBAY "?". Can anyone explain the dates autographed by Musial and Rose?

[ISUbirdjersey]

I am the consignor of the jersey. The jersey was first signed by Pete Rose. I think the date he wrote was the date he signed it and the # is for the total # of hits he had at that point (he had just passed Musial). I wanted to have Stan sign the jersey and I figured I could make the auto's be similar. So I requested Stan to write the date of his 3000th hit and then write 3000th hit. First he wrote a 53 on accident instead of 63 and he fixed the 5 to be a 6. Hence why it looks the way it does. The jersey was given to his agent and I guess instead of having Stan then write 3630th hit, we wrote 3630 hits #6. I consigned the item due to the autograph getting a little bit messed up and now I can see what it's worth. Now that it was authenticated as a Gamer, now I really want to bid on it and get it back. BTPH, are you saying it's for sure not a Musial worn coaches gamer?

[ISUbirdjersey]

Also keep in mind the Bradshaw and the Staubach were authenticated by MEARS and graded A7.5 and A6. They were not from an elderly couple. They were from a bitter couple who inherited the jerseys from a father in law of one of them who was "the scum of the earth." I was the first person to email them on ebay and tell them to not let anyone talk them out of ending the auction early as they had what appeared to be game worn jerseys. They told me they had a bunch of offers in the several hundred dollar range and decided since I was the first to warn them, that they wanted me to have the jerseys to do with as I pleased. Therefore, I sold them to buy other game used items including the Pujols rookie bat which is soon to be the first A10 MEARS graded photomatched rookie bat. I am thankful for those people who gave me the jerseys. They were not con artists. They were turned off by people trying to scam them on ebay and I got lucky when I warned them to be sure they knew what they were doing if they were going to end the auction early for a few hundred dollars.