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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
Some of us may think it's overpriced (me included) but obviously someone was willing to spend the money. Let's just say a card company bought it, cuts it up to put it on cards and then earns say $75000 because they put it on cards. Was it really overpriced because they had the means to make money off it? I know the CEO of "In The Game" hockey trading cards is a member over at the hockey game worn jerseys site and searches the site and the auctions for items to both collect and to cut up.
Someone could of bought it to use as a tax deduction, bragging rights, Sanchez could of bought it, heck even the person that bought it might think it's overpriced but wanted it bad enough they bought it anyway......like none of us have done that, just on a smaller scale.Comment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
I'd be more interested in hearing from buyer of Luckman jersey for 40k. Did they have some kind of rock solid proof knowing this jersey is what it said to be.
Sanchez and Crosby are as good as it gets as far as authenticity. No leap of faith on where and when they were worn. To me that is most important question on any gamer.Comment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
Originally posted by indyredComment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
Just my .02 here, but as I have always been told - regardless of Book Value, Market Value, etc - the ONLY True Value of an item is what someone is willing to pay you for it.
So, regardless of ANY or our opinions - the current value (at least at the time of the sale) WAS $20,000. Obviously, depending on how this post-season unfolds, that price tag could go up or down. Only time will tell.
As a small scale example, go check out Beckett some time... outside of 'hot' players (A-Rod, Pujols, Lincecum), try to sell a card at Book VALUE sometime... most current GU or AU cards that book under $10 - you'd be lucky to sell in a BULK lot at $1 - $2 each (1/10th to 1/5th of their so called VALUE) because that is what the current market bears.
I've lost out on many 'make an offer' deals because to someone else, the VALUE of the item in question was more to them than it was to me. That doesn't mean it's my place to say they 'overpaid'.
Many factors go into what I might pay for one item as opposed to another similar piece. And many times, it's not what the item's 'value' / price tag is figured at - it has to do with intangibles (like those noted) such as 1st Game, Last Game, ASG, etc...
I personally find the whole thread kind of assinine. But again, like value, that's MY opinion.
- ChrisComment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
This is like fighting the Taliban. They don't think like we do.
We're normal.....they are clearly not.
You can't argue with them because they don't hold the same values that we normal people do so it's a waste of your time to try and reason with them....they just don't get it. You explain the obvious to them but they still continue to adhere to a crazy mentality, ignoring all common sense in the process.
"Some people, you just can't reach", and I'll never understand the need some people feel to defend irrational behavior.
So while you may think this whole thread is "assinine", the other 99 per cent of us think that paying far more than an item is TRULY worth is totally assinine. Just because some fool is willing to pay a ridiculous amount for something does not, (let me repeat that last word....NOT), make it worth that amount. Make no mistake, and by no stretch of the imagination, is this possible. The re-sale market proves it every time.Comment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
Au contraire mon fraire (excuse my French) -
1st, like many items out there, this item has not, (let me repeat that last word....NOT) been offered for re-sale, so unless you're a fortune teller, you don't know what the future will bring. And many items have ended up bringing more in the re-sale market after selling for what was thought to be 'ridiculous' pricing in the 1st place - take for example 'The Card' (the Honus Wagner once owned by Gretzky)... even as more genuine examples were uncovered making this card less scarce each time, it continued to CRUSH the previous selling price that was considered impossible at the previous sale.
2nd, as was stated earlier - IF the Jets make the big dance and IF they win it all - this jersey has a chance to sell for many times more than was paid for it to someone else who has the money and wants to own it.
3rd - as I said earlier, true worth (or value) is not really determined by the public at large (i.e. all of us), but rather what a seller is willing to accept and what a buyer is willing to pay. It's called a FREE MARKET economy.
Finally - why is it that so many people here want to deal in ABSOLUTES (i.e. The re-sale market proves it every time.). Again, see the above example - not EVERY time. Or they like do deal in broad GENERALIZATIONS (i.e. Anyone who would spend that much is an idiot/fool/stupid, etc.) Just because you would not spend that amount (and neither would I - besides the fact that I'm a baseball collector) does not give anyone here the right to call the buyer a fool, idiot, etc., and as was also stated earlier, so items have worth WAY beyond the $$$ to some people for reasons we will likely never know (i.e. they are related to the player, their was something special about the day the item was worn for the buyer personally, etc), nor do we have any right to ask for those reasons. As an example (and I will give my reasons) I own a DJ Smith GU Colorado Avalanche Jersey. I didn't pay much for it (bought it during the NHL strike from the Av's store at the Pepsi Center), but I wouldn't sell it for 10 times what I paid for (even though it's probably 'worth' - according to the other 99% apparently - less than I paid for it) as I bought it as kind of a gag gift for my dad (whose name was DJ Smith) even though he didn't follow hockey. I had been sending him DJ Smith hockey cards for years on his B-Day and Christmas and such. When the jersey became available, I couldn't resist it... but my father died before I could give it to him. So now it hangs with my other GU jerseys where it will remain. Too much sentimental value.
That said - before anyone geso preaching how much they think they may know about the 'TRUE' Worth/Value, just realize they probably don't know the real reason why someone would pay so much for it.
Market Value / Book Value / Re-Sale Value, etc... just like Beckett Monthly is a 'GUIDE', those are still just 'GUIDES' on where something might normally sell for, but due to the hobby we are all involved in, sometimes there are just way to many variables that can make anomolies like this happen.
So to conclude - the other ABSOLUTE from above :
Obviously does not pertain to 100% - or even the 99% mentioned - as this particular item was WORTH that to someone. And no of us here have any right to judge that person's reasons which is exactly what this thread has been.Make no mistake, and by no stretch of the imagination, is this possible.
Chris Cavalier has made it quite clear (especially with a few recent 'suspensions') that this board is moving away from being about collectibles and the hobby and has become basically a scrum for open attacks on individuals.
The basics of THIS thread should have been:
Do you think this jersey is worth $20,000.00? Again, me personally (along with many others here) think NO.
But to personally attack the buyer (even if not by name) or others who defend their right to pay whatever they want by calling them stupid, idiot, etc. just keeps dragging this board down further and further.
That is why I called this thread assinine. Not any of the board members or posters or even the buyer - but the thread because it (like so many other boards here lately) has become about chest thumping and name calling when it adds NO VALUE to anything about the hobby.
Again, my .02 - my opinion - call it what you like, but read what I wrote. It addresses my thoughts without having to resort to name calling.
All the best -
ChrisComment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
I would like to give Matt from XXXSports a lot of credit. Me an him engaged in a very heated debate earlier in this thread and we didn't even come close to the personal attacks and some of the garbage I have had to endure on other threads in the last day.
Chris Cavalier has made it quite clear (especially with a few recent 'suspensions') that this board is moving away from being about collectibles and the hobby and has become basically a scrum for open attacks on individuals.
From 34xpress
First off, let's let Chris Cavallier speak for himself. He makes plenty of posts on this forum and I don't think other members should interpret what he has to say, using it as fuel n their arguments.
As far as a $20,000 jersey from a guy who threw 12 TDS and 20 INTS this year being worth more because he rides a great defense and solid running game to the Super Bowl ? Well, that's just not rational at all.
I came on this site to learn more about the hobby,make contacts,and maybe pick up some rare items. Instead, I spend a majority of my time defending my ideals and common sense against a few guys on here who like to single you out and attempt to ridicule you for speaking the truth. Then, when you defend yourself, they call you a troublemaker, and warn that you'll be banned. Well I've heard that I'm going to be banned a few times in the month I've been on here from a couple people who don't know what they are talking about. And guess what? I'm still here !Comment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
Andrew -
Not that it's a $20k jersey, but apparently many people thought the $850.00 tag on Matt Holliday's 2006 All Star Jersey was too high - I mean MLB still had it available up until mid 2009 when you acquired it for me.
Why was I willing to buy it at that price when no one else was? Many intangibles - Matt's 1st ASG appearance, Matt knows how much of his stuff I collect, he's a good guy (to me at least!), etc, etc. Does that mean I would spend that much for other Holliday stuff? It would depend on the item.
I just figured since you chimed in here - and you were directly involved in me obtaining that jersey - it would be a good real world example of someone paying what other's apparently would not.
Does it make the jersey worth $850.00? Who knows? It will probably be in my collection for the next 20 years or more (however long I have on this Earth) so that question is kind of a moot point. But to me it was worth it - and even more now that Matt has signed it and given it his blessing and inscribed it as Game Used.
Now that Matt has signed a long term deal with the Cardinals, I expect much of his stuff will go up as their is no longer 'speculation' about where he will land.
Maybe the buyer of the Sanchez jersey knows Sanchez and the jersey just has way too much intrinsic value to the buyer - above and beyond the expected 'market' for the jersey.
You know like I do - anything is possible in this hobby, up or down. Like your XMas order that Tiger kind of killed for you. Just like his escapades made his stuff drop, who knows what feats Sanchez might achieve that could make this jersey sky-rocket beyond what any of us might expect or consider 'reasonable'.
All the best -
Chris
P.S. - anything on the Fowler Future Stars jersey?
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
TJM -
1st, I'm not attacking you - nor have I attacked anyone here, but as I said, the previous post is my opinion but Chris has OPENLY made posts about personal attacks and the ilk, so I'm not exactly 'interpreting' what he has to say. I might be paraphrasing from some of his posts and reading into the suspensions (but I also read his post about what the suspensions were for - and they did include personal attacks). I'm not 'using it as fuel' to defend my arguments - I'm simply stating that (IMHO) if you can't make your argument without attacking someone, then you might want to rethink what you're typing. NONE of us are infallible, the ultimate expert, etc - we are a conglomeration of collector's who as you stated: "I came on this site to learn more about the hobby,make contacts,and maybe pick up some rare items." The more personal attacks I see, the less I care to share any knowledge with certain individuals because they seem to want nothing more than to be combative.
2nd, in your opinion (and you are welcome to it and I defend - and did defend as member of the USAF for 12 years - your right to it) the jersey possibly being worth more if they win the SB not being rational? We don't deal in a 'rational' hobby. For lack of better terms (and I've been called worse by people) we're 'Star Chasers' or 'Hero Worshipers', etc because we collect Autos or Game Used items from sports stars we idolize. (If we didn't idolize them, we wouldn't collect them.) I mean if you saw a guy stop a bank robbery, would you want the shirt he was wearing while being a hero? Probably not - I know I wouldn't even think about. Yet he just committed a much more heroic act than most any of our sports idols will even do - but we'll dole out thousands for the jersey or bat or whatever they wore in such and such a game. Again, it's not a 'rational' hobby.
That is the simple point I have been trying to get across these last few posts.
I truly hope that you find the knowledge and contacts you seek in trying to make yourself a better collector.
All the best -
ChrisComment
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Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez
I wasn't referring to you. You never did anything like that. I was merely using an example of how one member on here has been following me around to any thread I post on, and disagreeing with whatever I post. I just wanted to illustrate where some others' motives are on here. I disagree with some of your points, but by no means meant you were taking swipes at me.Comment
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