Mac admits using steroids...

[3arod13]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsOtVWnfE4oNVgssATeqCuIRvLYF?slug=ap-mcgwire-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

Agree! But give me a break! Cheating has gone on in baseball for a while now (all different types of cheating).

So if this is cheating and they shouldn't go in the Hall of Fame, then the other ways pitchers cheated and other players, etc., should also count when considered for the Hall of Fame.

Cheating is cheating!

Regards, Tony

[allstarsplus]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

This is becoming a media circus now. He admitted to the 'roids and now let's move on. It seems every time another guy talks about PEDs the sports channels and news shows become obsessed with it.

McGwire gave more info and specifics than any other ballplayer that I can remember except Canseco.

Is he being singled out and being made into the Steroid poster boy now?

Based on his college and Rookie production where he was 'roid free, I still feel he was one of the greatest HR hitters in the game if he had never touched steroids, but unfortunately we will never know what his career numbers would have been without PEDs.

A real shame....

[allstarsplus]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Joe Morgan, a Hall of Famer and the board’s vice chairman, feels bad for players who didn’t use performance enhancers.

“Those guys are being penalized twice,” he said. “First, the guys who did steroids had all those great numbers, made all the money, and the guys who didn’t do steroids and just had good years, didn’t make as much money. So they get hurt there. Now at the end of their careers when you have to compare those numbers to the guys who did do steroids, they’re going to get hurt again as far as the Hall of Fame is concerned. So I can’t in my own mind excuse what happened, whatever the reason.”

I would go a step further. Guys like Albert Pujols, Frank Thomas and Adam Dunn and some others that never used steroids are studs of their era but they are penalized 3 times because there will always be some that still may think they may not be clean because after guys like ARod, many of us have learned not to trust any of these guys from the era.

[perezfan]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

I neither understand or agree with the argument that McGwire using steroids was only about maintaining his health and putting a halt to his deteriorating body. To say that it didn't help him hit home runs is deceptive and ignorant...

If his health deteriorated in its natural progression (without the aid of steroids), he would have hit dozens fewer home runs. A banged up/ailing body doesn't hit as many home runs as a fully functioning one. If not for the steroids, he would have been on a level playing field with all those who came before him (those who did not have any ability to extend their careers beyond a natural time frame).

If he bowed out when "Father Time" dictated, his career would have been more similar to a Dave Kingman, Boog Powell, Lee May, Frank Howard or Dave Parker (very good players, but none of whom merit HOF consideration).

Longevity is a big reason that many players have earned HOF honors, and this person clearly experienced an unfair advantage. His grandest records and "achievements" were all produced during the late-career time frame in question.

[RJB44]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

and someone will still be foolish enough to shell out $800.00 for one of Mac's game used caps!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oakland-As-MARK-McGWIRE-Game-Used-CAP-w-Auto-PSA-DNA_W0QQitemZ390132798400QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5ba13c0

[suave1477]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

OK, I'm a little bit impressed, but the guy got meat pitches all year long.

I am not so sure about that. In a game against the Orioles in the 9th inning Hoyt Wlhelm one of the best knuckle ball pitchers ever was brought in specifically to face Maris so he wouldn't give him an easy pitch to hit. Rumor has it the Orioles manager even threatened Hoyt that if he gives up a Home Run to Maris he will be fined $5,000.

So believe me, they weren't just all lobbing the ball to Maris.

[coxfan]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Regarding Maris, remember that the second-place Tigers had a 101-61 record, with the Yankees pulling away only toward the end of the season after sweeping a 3-game series with the Tigers. Nobody's going to go easy on Maris in such a race! They didn't intentionally walk him, but they did try to get him out.

Here in Columbia SC, I've been privileged to meet both Bobby Richardson and Jack Fisher, who threw Maris's 60th, and gotten the auto's of both. I overheard Richardson lamenting to someone that he had had some of Mantle's bats but had disposed of them long ago, never dreaming of their future value.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Just curious...

Was Big Mac truly sorry that he took steroids? Or is he just sorry that he's been backed into such a corner that he's been forced to admit it?

Dave M.
Chicago area

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Just curious...

Was Big Mac truly sorry that he took steroids? Or is he just sorry that he's been backed into such a corner that he's been forced to admit it?

Dave M.
Chicago area

That's a question only Mark can answer. I think he truly is sorry for letting people down though. He feels good to get it off his chest and now he is hoping to get back and be apart of the game. This guy has tons of knowledge when it comes to hitting and can't wait to get around the hitters and also take some BP himself.

[coxfan]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

He confessed his use privately to a Congressman before the congressional hearings, but the congressman couldn't get a promise of immunity for him from the Attorney General. ( see the article on MLB.com) Thus, he had little choice but to avoid questions at the hearing to avoid prosecution either for perjury or for use. Thus, I think he wanted to come clean long ago, and would've done so with immunity from prosecution.

To me, the real problem was with the Players' association, whose fierce fight to block testing allowed the culture to grow. Since the '94 strike that nearly killed the sport, they've been the big bully on the block; the owners were afraid of how far they'd go. Former Commisioner Fay Vincent, in his book, quoted a major PA official as saying he didn't care if he hurt the sport itself in his defense of the players. The irony is that the PA hurt its clean players in defense of the others.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

He confessed his use privately to a Congressman before the congressional hearings, but the congressman couldn't get a promise of immunity for him from the Attorney General. ( see the article on MLB.com) Thus, he had little choice but to avoid questions at the hearing to avoid prosecution either for perjury or for use. Thus, I think he wanted to come clean long ago, and would've done so with immunity from prosecution.

To me, the real problem was with the Players' association, whose fierce fight to block testing allowed the culture to grow. Since the '94 strike that nearly killed the sport, they've been the big bully on the block; the owners were afraid of how far they'd go. Former Commisioner Fay Vincent, in his book, quoted a major PA official as saying he didn't care if he hurt the sport itself in his defense of the players. The irony is that the PA hurt its clean players in defense of the others.

coxfan,

Not only has the players association "bullied" the sport in making demands for and protecting their cheating members, but in doing so, they ironically destroyed the whole generation in hindsight by the associations very actions. One hell of a legacy left by the recently retired piece of dung, Donald Fehr.

As has been mentioned several times, the owners just "let it ride" because they were reaping the benefits of the resurgence in popularity of the game due to the home run show that endured from all the cheating. Bud Selig too....absent. They all abandoned the true history, respect, and governing duties they were responsible for to the game. The "show" was too much fun.

I think it's poetic justice. And I also believe there has been enough public scrutiny on the "suspected" players of this whole steroids era mess, that when it's all said and done, only "worthy" players will end up in the Hall, as it should be.

But you know, I do believe there are a very selective few Hall of Famers that have squeezed out from under the vise, and got elected into the Hall.....that actually did use for a portion of thier careers. Two come to mind, but I have no proof. The only question is.....if that fact eventually comes out, and is exposed (by Canseco who maybe knows for sure, or someone else...an ex-wife, girfriend, etc.), how will the other Hall of Famers react to it, and what will be done. This is all going to be a very interesting chapter of baseball history as it unfolds and is dealt with by the BBWAA as they place their future votes for the eligible Hall of Fame players. Moving on is important for today's current players, but maintaining the integrity of the record books is just as, if not much more, important to us true baseball historians of the greatest game ever invented.


Nice post, coxfan, I couldn't agree more.

Here's to hoping for a few more ejections this coming year to add to his legacy!!!

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

So I am trying to understand the McGuire incident. A poor kid in the inner City uses and/or sells illegal drugs. If he is caught, he is arrested. If the investigation shows that other people knew about the sales, they too are arrested for conspiracy.

But, if you are Mark McGuire and other "Star" baseball players and/or the Commissioner of baseball, it's OK.

Just my opinion - hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

[whatupyos]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

So I am trying to understand the McGuire incident. A poor kid in the inner City uses and/or sells illegal drugs. If he is caught, he is arrested. If the investigation shows that other people knew about the sales, they too are arrested for conspiracy.

But, if you are Mark McGuire and other "Star" baseball players and/or the Commissioner of baseball, it's OK.

Just my opinion - hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

Jim,

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm interested in criminal law and know the law pretty well, but I also could make mistakes. But, just becasue someone admits to use, you have to find evidence against it. Anyone can claim they used drugs but a claim alone won't get you arrested. I'm trying hard to understand your statment so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding. You mentioned if an inner city kid is caught he will go to jail....key word is caught. If the kid is caught you have evidence, i.e. drugs, pipe, papers, whatever. In McGwire's case you only have the confession that he used, no evidence.

I still think you have to have evidence that someone knew of another's use to get arrested. It has to be something solid. But I could be wrong. Generally the police only care about the top of the line suppliers not the casual recreational users, but again I say generally.

Aaron

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

So I am trying to understand the McGuire incident. A poor kid in the inner City uses and/or sells illegal drugs. If he is caught, he is arrested. If the investigation shows that other people knew about the sales, they too are arrested for conspiracy.

But, if you are Mark McGuire and other "Star" baseball players and/or the Commissioner of baseball, it's OK.

Just my opinion - hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

This is a bad example because often times when there is a federal investigation, as what took place with McGwire, they could care less about busting a few kids.

What the Feds want is the supplier, the big dealers that are worth the federal government to go after. The Feds are not going to get involved to bust a couple of kids with a few ounces of marijuana on them. The Local police department may be interested in something like that but the FBI will not come busting down doors for users.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

I think Jim's point was that if you're rich here in America, and you have status, popularity, a prestigious job and are loved by many, you can fairly often get away with almost anything.

Sound familiar? Like maybe the life of a star athlete? You can obtain the best legal advice money can buy as evidenced by how Mark handled himself at the congressional hearings.

While on the other hand, if you're an inner city struggling youth.....you are nothing more than a feeder rat which the local police department recruits will use to "break in their teeth" on. No support, no money.....no mercy.

Yeah....it's unfair Jim.