eBay: Late 60s Saints durene?

[both-teams-played-hard]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...%3DI%26otn%3D2

Looks good. Any thoughts? Was Southland a maker of early Saints shirts? And to you folks who may claim that I "outed" this auction...you can't sneak anything past true pickers, especially in a good category with the right keywords.

[designedexclusively]

In my opinion the shirt is already outed, 361 with 4 days remaining, probably go for about 1,000.00

From gettyimages and random resources online looks to be a either a late '67 or '68 gamer, no real use, probably a pre-season shirt. '69 numbers when to all white and nameplates were added. No one wore 47 in '68 and by '69

Not sure about manufacturer, definitely earliest Saints shirt I've ever seen. Do know they wore Sand Knit for a gang of those earlier years.

Anyone else?

DX

[genius]

Great find!

[sox83cubs84]

Warren:

The only Saints wearable better than a 1967-68 game jersey would be a 1967 (preseason, I think...help me, helmet guys) black Saints helmet. Nice work!

Dave M.
Chicago area

[G1X]

A couple of clarifications regarding New Orleans Saints jerseys of that era.

1. As previously indicated, a style very similar to the ebay jersey was worn by the Saints only in 1967 and 1968.

2. Bruce Cortez wore #47 for New Orleans in 1967. He was active in only one regular season game according to the Pro Football Encyclopedia. He is also listed as #47 on the 1968 pre-camp roster in the Street & Smith Pro Football Annual, but did not make the team. See the following two links showing Cortez on the 1967 roster: http://www.nosaintshistory.com/rosters/1967ros.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...967_roster.htm

3. Nameplates were added to NFL (NFC) jerseys in 1970, not 1969.

4. The Saints did switch to white numbers in 1969, but they also still wore gold numbers as seen in the below photo from the November 23, 1969 home game against San Francisco (note the NFL 50th patch worn in '69). The white-numbered jerseys were mesh, and the gold-numbered were most likely durene. However, the sleeve stripes on both styles of 1969 jerseys differed from the 1967/68 jerseys as the 5 stripes were no longer connected on the 1969 jerseys. (IMPORTANT NOTE: The player in the action photo has cut/hemmed sleeves. Therefore, only 3 stripes show instead of 5).

While I will not enter into a discussion as to whether the ebay jersey is or is not a Saints game-worn jersey, it appears from the ebay photos that the numbers show a tremendous amount of wash wear as evidenced by the wrinkling/puckering of the numbers. The separation of stitching on the back #7 could be caused by usage. If this is a Saints jersey (or any team from that era), there is the strong possibility that is was reused in practice once it was no longer needed for game use.

I've also attached a photo of #74-Mike Tilleman circa 1968. For those interested in the ebay jersey, this photo is a good example of what the "4" and "7" should look like on both the front of the jersey and the shoulders. For those of you who have access to 1969 Topps football cards, see Tilleman's card which is #218 in the set (pictures of the card can easily be found in an internet search). The Tilleman card provides a good view of the "4" an "7" circa 1968.

Hope this information is helpful.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for WFL and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Darren Lewis and Willie McGee items.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Warren:

The only Saints wearable better than a 1967-68 game jersey would be a 1967 (preseason, I think...help me, helmet guys) black Saints helmet. Nice work!

Dave M.
Chicago area

I search "durene" almost every day, so I was bound to find it. DX alerted me also and did some good research. As usual, thanks to Mark for his needed insight.

[John in KY]

Warren:

The only Saints wearable better than a 1967-68 game jersey would be a 1967 (preseason, I think...help me, helmet guys) black Saints helmet. Nice work!

Dave M.
Chicago area

Per HelmetHut the black helmet was used in the 1969 preseason; the early years of the Saints helmet striping should go something like this:

1967 pre-season (or at least training camp): gold helmet, single white center stripe

1967 season: gold helmet, black/white/black stripes

1968 pre-season through Game 2 regular season: gold helmet, black/white/black stripes

1968 games 3-14: gold helmet, white/black/white stripes (pants stripes also changed but you will see players with both pants styles in the same photo)

1969 pre-season: black helmet

1969 season: gold helmet, black/white/black stripes

[designedexclusively]

Does anyone know if there are any known examples of Saints gamers from the late 1960's in the hobby, or have closed in previous auctions, I cannot think of one off hand earlier then the early 80's...

The helpful stats on the player wearing number 47 would be consistent with the ammount of use shown on the shirt, which just looks like some minor number fraying and wear.

If a saints no namer from this era goes for cake, what would a star from this era fetch in the current new orleans crazed market?

DX.

[G1X]

For what it's worth, it takes a lot of wearing and washing to get the type of number puckering and fraying seen on the ebay jersey. Old jerseys, especially durene jerseys, were made much differently. They were "built to last", and players did not wear them "skin tight" like modern players. Therefore, jerseys tended to last longer and did not rip and tear as easily as modern jerseys.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for WFL and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Darren Lewis and Willie McGee items.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Per HelmetHut the black helmet was used in the 1969 preseason; the early years of the Saints helmet striping should go something like this:

1967 pre-season (or at least training camp): gold helmet, single white center stripe

1967 season: gold helmet, black/white/black stripes

1968 pre-season through Game 2 regular season: gold helmet, black/white/black stripes

1968 games 3-14: gold helmet, white/black/white stripes (pants stripes also changed but you will see players with both pants styles in the same photo)

1969 pre-season: black helmet

1969 season: gold helmet, black/white/black stripes

Here is a Saints helmet, supposedly from their first season, that sold on AMI a couple of years ago: