The Carryover Factor

[xpress34]

My favorite crossover example for a jersey is the Maris 1960 Jersey.

Joel -

I was going to use that example!!! Especially in light of the statement earlier about someone not wanting a 2009 Post Season Yankees jersey if tagged as 2008 even though the carry-over is possible.

For those that don't know, the jersey Joel is referring to is THE Jersey Maris was wearing when he hit #61 in 1961. Due to the 'fingerprint' of pinstripe jerseys and the numerous photos from that game, many jerseys were compared and none photo matched and it was thought for a long time that the jersey was lost to history until a 1960 jersey in a private collection turned out to be the match to the photos. It wasn't uncommon then for teams to carry over a jersey from the previous season for a returning player just in case of emergencies... and on that day for whatever reason, maris was wearing his 1960 jersey.

That's one carry-over I'd like to own!!!

Now Joel - and I'm surprised no one else caught your typo - I'd like to see photo proof of this one:

... or Thurman Munson used a bicentennial bat in 1997.

18 years after his all too early exit from this mortal plane. (Just giving you grief Joel! And you as a Mod HAVE the EDIT feature! )

Anyway, I would like to add to this discussion (if I may) the fact that the same thing happens in the Auto side of the hobby - if a guy played his career on an AL team - do want his Auto on an NL ball? There are a TON of Ruth's out there on vintage NL balls.

As an example of why you have to do your research (besides the fact the guy may have done a coaching or managing stint in the opposite league) is this ball I just picked up and why I bought it even though it was on the 'wrong league's' ball:

(I will add pics of this piece as soon as I have time to take them, edit them (resizing), etc.)

This ball was a steal no matter how you slice it... on eBay, no other bids - won for $99.99 FREE shipping w/ JSA LOA for Clean Sweep Auctions Lot#887

It is listed as a 1933 New York Giants ball w/ decent Hubbell and possible faint Ott.

From the seller's input and research, he was able to pull a few more names:

Hal Schumacher
Hi Bell
Freddie Fitzsimmons
Jo-Jo Moore
Homer Peel
Lefty O'Doul
Glenn Spencer
Travis Jackson
Blondy Ryan

It appears to have Bill Terry on the Sweet Spot (which would make sense as he was Player/Mgr).

Here's where it gets interesting... it is signed on a Blue/Red Stitch Official AMERICAN League (William Harridge) Ball. The Giants were a NATIONAL League team.

I did my research and Harridge became AL Pres in 1931. ALL Balls (AL and NL) went to ALL Red Stitching in 1934.

In 1933 the Giants were World Series Champs defeating the Washington Senators.

It is possible (and would not be a huge stretch since 'store model' balls from this time period [Great Depression] are scarce) that this is a GU ball from one of the 1933 WS Games played at Griffith Stadium.

The ball itself - regardless of sigs and heritage - is worth around $600 to $700 + just due to scarcity of early AL and NL multi color stitched balls and that alone is what I based my bid on. The autos and or it's potential provenance are icing on the cake.


All the best -

Chris

[joelsabi]

Joel -

I was going to use that example!!! Especially in light of the statement earlier about someone not wanting a 2009 Post Season Yankees jersey if tagged as 2008 even though the carry-over is possible.



Now Joel - and I'm surprised no one else caught your typo - I'd like to see photo proof of this one:

18 years after his all too early exit from this mortal plane. (Just giving you grief Joel! And you as a Mod HAVE the EDIT feature! )

Anyway, I would like to add to this discussion (if I may) the fact that the same thing happens in the Auto side of the hobby - if a guy played his career on an AL team - do want his Auto on an NL ball? There are a TON of Ruth's out there on vintage NL balls.

As an example of why you have to do your research (besides the fact the guy may have done a coaching or managing stint in the opposite league) is this ball I just picked up and why I bought it even though it was on the 'wrong league's' ball:

(I will add pics of this piece as soon as I have time to take them, edit them (resizing), etc.)

This ball was a steal no matter how you slice it... on eBay, no other bids - won for $99.99 FREE shipping w/ JSA LOA for Clean Sweep Auctions Lot#887

It is listed as a 1933 New York Giants ball w/ decent Hubbell and possible faint Ott.

From the seller's input and research, he was able to pull a few more names:

Hal Schumacher
Hi Bell
Freddie Fitzsimmons
Jo-Jo Moore
Homer Peel
Lefty O'Doul
Glenn Spencer
Travis Jackson
Blondy Ryan

It appears to have Bill Terry on the Sweet Spot (which would make sense as he was Player/Mgr).

Here's where it gets interesting... it is signed on a Blue/Red Stitch Official AMERICAN League (William Harridge) Ball. The Giants were a NATIONAL League team.

I did my research and Harridge became AL Pres in 1931. ALL Balls (AL and NL) went to ALL Red Stitching in 1934.

In 1933 the Giants were World Series Champs defeating the Washington Senators.

It is possible (and would not be a huge stretch since 'store model' balls from this time period [Great Depression] are scarce) that this is a GU ball from one of the 1933 WS Games played at Griffith Stadium.

The ball itself - regardless of sigs and heritage - is worth around $600 to $700 + just due to scarcity of early AL and NL multi color stitched balls and that alone is what I based my bid on. The autos and or it's potential provenance are icing on the cake.


All the best -

Chris

Chris,

You mean independence wasn't in 1796?

I thought about posing the Maris Jersey as a scenario to Justin but I don't know him too well yet. Besides you tell the story better than I would have.

Thanks for the additional example too. One of the things that strikes me about carryovers is that I see them as a possible steal as many collector will shy away from such item if they are not open to the possibility of crossovers, resulting in less bids at auction.

[xpress34]

Chris,

You mean independence wasn't in 1796?

I thought about posing the Maris Jersey as a scenario to Justin but I don't know him too well yet. Besides you tell the story better than I would have.

Thanks for the additional example too. One of the things that strikes me about carryovers is that I see them as a possible steal as many collector will shy away from such item if they are not open to the possibility of crossovers, resulting in less bids at auction.

1796? You mean I missed the 're-do' of our Bi-Centennial 14 years ago???

I agree with you about the 'steals to be had' if you'll just keep an open mind - and do your research. It may not be the 'exact' item you had in your mind's eye, but that doesn't make it any less real or valuable or historical... an item is what an item is.

As far as the additional example, it's what keeps me in the hobby - finding those steals and doing my homework... if you don't know the story, ask me about my $25 (DLVD) Clark Griffith single signed ball sometime - an eBay steal - for a HOFer whose single signed balls range around $2,000 - $3,200.

Oh... and thanks for the kind words on my 'condensed' version of the Maris jersey!

All the best -

Chris

[metsbats]

Two bats I have which Gary Carter used to obtain milestones in 1986 (his 250th home run and 900th RBI) are from the 1985 season.

[metsbats]

Back in the early 90's there was a Gone Bats article in SCD which reported that the HOF had the bat which Willie McCovey purportedly hit his last home run on display. Problem was the bat was an early 70's HB old label bat and McCovey's last season was 1980. Vince Malta was the one who pointed this out to the author Mike Montbriand.

Speculation was that it may have been an error or perhaps Stretch did pull out an old bat for his final season.

[sox83cubs84]

Just saw a Padres 1997 home Tony Gwynn in Legendary Auctions' current event that has an Alicia Gwynn LOA. It has a 1992-style Russell tag.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[joelsabi]

Joel -



Now Joel - and I'm surprised no one else caught your typo - I'd like to see photo proof of this one:




Chris

Chris, here is the photo. I need to ask about that other baseball sometime.
So its a 1976 bat used in 1977, when Munson and Jackson first became teammates.

[xpress34]

Chris, here is the photo. I need to ask about that other baseball sometime.
So its a 1976 bat used in 1977, when Munson and Jackson first became teammates.

Great pics!

And a collector would throw that bat 'out of bed' why??? Because it's a 'carry over'?

Just like the story in this previous GUU thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=26088

About Josh Hamilton using a 40 YEAR OLD LVS of Joe Macko's.

Not ONLY a different player's bat, not only a 'carry over' from a previous season... it's a Carry Over from 4 decades earlier!!!

I'd LOVE to have it in my collection!!!

- Chris

[xpress34]

HAHAHAHA... Joel.... you're killing me!

It just hit me why you put the photo up... I was being sarcastic about seeing photo proof of him using it in 1997!!!

I need to get off of here and go to bed... it's a work day tomorrow... drop me an eMail and I'll tell you all about my Griffith ball...

All the best -

Chris
xpress34@comcast .net

[tigerdale]

these two baseballs were bought at comerica park last april...both authenticated as used in the april 15th game....both minor league balls...different minor leagues at that!!