The Carryover Factor

[joelsabi]

We as collectors rely on year tags on jerseys, center branding on bats, and baseball logos on baseballs as one of the factors when determining the origin of a game used item. When manufacturers change the year tags, center brandings, or baseball logos, sometimes there is some inconsistencies that happen which can be explained by a carryover of a product. Manufacturers, team equipment managers, and players will not throw out equipment if it is usable. For example, Dave caught a 2000 HR baseball at Wrigley with a Bulig logo, Stephenson wore a 1993 Mets Jersey with a 1992 year tag, or Thurman Munson used a bicentennial bat in 1997.

Just curious about your opinion on carryover since I have seen collectors pass on an item for this very reason.

Do you think carryover is an issue when selecting items for your collection? Do you think it affects the value of the item either positively or negatively compared to the value of otherwise identical equipment from that year? Would the length of the carryover (example, ½ season, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years) ever factor into your decision? Does the era in which the item was produced also affect your decision as well.

[legaleagle92481]

We as collectors rely on year tags on jerseys, center branding on bats, and baseball logos on baseballs as one of the factors when determining the origin of a game used item. When manufacturers change the year tags, center brandings, or baseball logos, sometimes there is some inconsistencies that happen which can be explained by a carryover of a product. Manufacturers, team equipment managers, and players will not throw out equipment if it is usable. For example, Dave caught a 2000 HR baseball at Wrigley with a Bulig logo, Stephenson wore a 1993 Mets Jersey with a 1992 year tag, or Thurman Munson used a bicentennial bat in 1997.

Just curious about your opinion on carryover since I have seen collectors pass on an item for this very reason.

Do you think carryover is an issue when selecting items for your collection? Do you think it affects the value of the item either positively or negatively compared to the value of otherwise identical equipment from that year? Would the length of the carryover (example, ½ season, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years) ever factor into your decision? Does the era in which the item was produced also affect your decision as well.

Not really as long as the item is authentic it does not affect my purchasing decision one way or the other. In some cases would it be great to have the item tagged from a certain year? Of course like a Yankees jersey from 2009 tagged as 09 when they won the World Series rather than tagged as 08 when they did not make the playoffs.

[cigarman44]

I was curious about the carryover on baseballs in 2000 when they switched to the unified ball. I was offered a National League ball that was being sold as a ball from 2000. I figured there might be some carryover but was told that it couldn't have happened. So I passed on the ball.

[ironmanfan]

I was curious about the carryover on baseballs in 2000 when they switched to the unified ball. I was offered a National League ball that was being sold as a ball from 2000. I figured there might be some carryover but was told that it couldn't have happened. So I passed on the ball.

Actually, I saw the collection of game used baseballs that were used in the game in Minneapolis when Cal Ripken Jr. got his 3000th hit in April of 2000 and there actually was a couple of the old OAL balls in there....

[joelsabi]

Actually, I saw the collection of game used baseballs that were used in the game in Minneapolis when Cal Ripken Jr. got his 3000th hit in April of 2000 and there actually was a couple of the old OAL balls in there....

Dave caught the old OAL Budig baseball in April of 2000 too. So at what months into the season, if any, would you start having doubts?

I was curious about the carryover on baseballs in 2000 when they switched to the unified ball. I was offered a National League ball that was being sold as a ball from 2000. I figured there might be some carryover but was told that it couldn't have happened. So I passed on the ball.

Who told you it was not possible and what was their reasoning in saying that? Do you know what month the baseball was used?

[cigarman44]

Dave caught the old OAL Budig baseball in April of 2000 too. So at what months into the season, if any, would you start having doubts?



Who told you it was not possible and what was their reasoning in saying that? Do you know what month the baseball was used?

The ball in question was claimed to be from Sept of 2000. I asked Jeff Scott about it. I kinda had my doubts that late in the season as well. The guy said he got it from a photographer at ground level from that game. I wonder if it could had been a BP ball that was held over and he got it in batting practice.

[sox83cubs84]

FTR, the Konerko HR I got from Comiskey Park (not Wrigley Field) with the Budig label was during the Saturday game of a mid-April White Sox-Tigers series.
Dave M.
Chicago area

[joelsabi]

FTR, the Konerko HR I got from Comiskey Park (not Wrigley Field) with the Budig label was during the Saturday game of a mid-April White Sox-Tigers series.
Dave M.
Chicago area

Thanks Dave,

Hope you don't mind me mentioning it since it was the only example I knew of until the Ripken baseballs were mentioned in this thread.

My favorite crossover example for a jersey is the Maris 1960 Jersey.

[joelsabi]

The hologram numbers on the baseballs are LH299471 & LH299474....I believe it was jackie Robinson day too if they did anything special w/ the balls that day....
Hologram number LH299474 was located in the MLB Authentication Database under GAME-USED BASEBALL.
Session Product Description:
Session Name: CWS AT DET
Session Date: April 15, 2009
Autographer:
Authenticator: AUTHENTICATORS, INC.
Additional Information: CHICAGO @ DETROIT

Thanks Dale for pulling out the baseball to get the hologram numbers. No mention of PCL or International League or being a BP baseball in the MLB database for those baseballs. I don't think Jackie Robinson's Day would be a reason to use minor league balls during a game either. Robinson's only minor league team coincidently was the Montreal Royals, a International league team so why the PCL ball if this was the case.

Do you think they were actually used in the game or just tagged incorrectly ? Having caught dozens of these in bp from the Tigers over the past 3+ years , I would think that an authenticator either was lazy
and didnt look at the balls they were authenicating or just didnt know any better. Im curious what kind of trainning these authenticators go through , and what exactly happens to the bag of game balls after the game . Do they get locked up out of reach of anyone or are they just sitting in a corner somewhere until they get tagged . Im guessing that someone probably picked up a few balls laying around and tossed them into the bag of game balls. And as above , the authenicator didnt look all to closely at what he/she was doing .

Considering how different the seams are on the minor league baseballs I would think the umpire would surely notice when/if he grabbed one out of
his bag. And the pitcher would probably have a smile as wide as the Grand Canyon given the opportunity to throw one of these again


And yes in April of 2000 a few gamers game out of Wrigley as National League . And in 2005 , after the all star game , two game home runs that landed on the streets were 2005 Comerica Park all star baseballs

This is only my opinion as I have no first hand knowledge of the logistics of storing bp and game used ball at Comerica. Where did the PCL baseball come from? The Detroit equipment manager would never order PCL baseballs since none of the Detroit's affiliates play in the PCL. Taking into consideration Ballhawk’s experience, the intermingling of warm-up baseballs from visiting teams with a PCL affiliate seem like the best explanation. One of the two teams must have picked up a stray baseball somewhere along the way when playing a team with a PCL affiliate and kept it in their practice ball bags. Chicago’s AAA affiliate wasn’t a PCL team either, so this PCL baseball probably was a BP ball left from an earlier series or a stray collected by Detroit personnel in warm-up. Teams could care less what baseball they use for bp. I agree, training of authenticators to be more thorough is in order