Game worn 1984 Dodgers F. VALENZUELA road jersey

[TNTtoys]

I had a Dave Magadan 86 Goodman road jersey sized 43.

I've never seen this odd size on Rawlings though.

I don't think I have ever seen an odd size on a Rawlings either. I have seen it on Majestic and Goodman jerseys.

[TNTtoys]

Gentlemen:

With regards to the Gooman jerseys for sale, this is a very informative read. Specifically, post #14 by Tom Duino in the following thread (member 012562). Tom is a very knowledgeable Angels Collector.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ackson+goodman

Regards,
Nick

[EricDavis44fan]

I'm no jersey expert, but I agree that there are too many jersey letter/number inconsistencies for me personally to feel comfortable buying that jersey.

Just saw this one on Ebay, a 1993 game used jersey of him. Looks maybe a little better? Good luck!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fernando-Valenzu...item45ef9da5fd

The $3,000 1983 Fernando Valenzuela jersey has 1985-1990 Goodman tagging. This info is from Bill Henderson's Jersey guide, and also is the same info Rudy passed along to me a few years ago. Hope this helps.

Dave
Always looking for Eric Davis Gamers

[sox83cubs84]

I don't think I have ever seen an odd size on a Rawlings either. I have seen it on Majestic and Goodman jerseys.

I haven't seen them on the older red Rawlings tags, but I had in my collection many moons ago a 1990 road Cubs Derrick May which was tagged a size 45. Other than that, the only odd sizes I've seen on Rawlings gamers were in embroidered strip tags, a couple of times on mid 1970s Mets jerseys, either as a size itself (41) or in a range (40/41).

Dave M.
Chicago area

[metsbats]

The $3,000 1983 Fernando Valenzuela jersey has 1985-1990 Goodman tagging. This info is from Bill Henderson's Jersey guide, and also is the same info Rudy passed along to me a few years ago. Hope this helps.

Dave
Always looking for Eric Davis Gamers

Dave

Thanks for posting this info.

[LA_1968]

What did you think of the Keith Hernandez jersey?

I was looking at the guy's other 3 items... The Keith Hernandez looked really good against an REA Mears A10:
http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...2008/1406.html

Except you can't see the hem in the auction jersey:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Authentic-game-w...item3efd1ef7ab



Like I said, this doesn't have much to do with the Fernando but I do see an inconsistency in this other one while the rest of it looks pretty darn good to me.

That 3k Fernando has been on ebay for at least a month from my memory.

Charles

[TNTtoys]

I was looking at the guy's other 3 items... The Keith Hernandez looked really good against an REA Mears A10:
http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...2008/1406.html

Except you can't see the hem in the auction jersey:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Authentic-game-w...item3efd1ef7ab

Charles,

Unfortunately the hem is not the only thing inconsistent with the Keith Hernandez jersey. I find the seller's story on how he acquired it inconsistent too. Worrysome to say the least for a jersey with no paperwork and a seller with no reputation.

On the actual auction listing, the seller appended the answer to a question he was asked -- how was it obtained. He responded that he bought it approximately 23 years ago at the national sports convention. That dates the convention at either 1986 (potentially too early given the Mets were wearing these on field at the time) or 1987.

Given Tom Duino's diatribe about mass-produced road gray Goodman & Sons jerseys of star players circa 1982-1986 that were identical in every way to real gamers and included Mets jerseys (which is just about as big a red flag as it gets -- let's not forget that his feedback is "1"), I asked the seller a little more about where he bought the jersey. He mentioned the convention, but this time, he gave the location - downtown L.A. Trouble is, the NSCC was not in LA at all during this timeframe. 1986: Arlington TX, 1987: Atlantic City NJ, 1988: San Francisco, 1989: Chicago.

Did he buy the jersey elsewhere? Are his recollection of the dates wrong? Possibly. But those questions, Tom's post, the lack of feedback, the fact that the jersey has no paperwork, and the fact that the jersey was started at such a ridiculously low price had me wondering.

So... I will not be bidding. This jersey is going to turn out to be either one of those mass-produced Goodmans or a "steal" from someone who has not shied away from bidding due to all of the apparent red flags. Hoping for the future buyer , it is what it is purported to be, because from the looks of things, it will sell for a lot of money! I for one am not that big a gambler.

Nick

[platinum1]

Now I know why I love this site.
Because you get people that actually want to help.
Thank You everbody that has helped.
LA how do we know for sure that the jersey Robert Edward Auction is legit.
It looks like Goodman made a boat load of these jerseys and anyone could of doctored the jersey to look legit.
At this time Im going to pass on the Valenzuela and save my money.
Thanks

[LA_1968]

Charles,

Unfortunately the hem is not the only thing inconsistent with the Keith Hernandez jersey. I find the seller's story on how he acquired it inconsistent too. Worrysome to say the least for a jersey with no paperwork and a seller with no reputation.
Nick

I was just having fun trying to get the physical characteristics to check out or not. I thought it was strange how he never showed the bottom third of any of his jerseys and then I stumbled on the shot of the tag revealing a difference of the Hernandez.

I definetely appreciate your teaching of how to disprove background information. You basically can discover if the person is dishonest or misinformed without even looking at the product. It is also key to have the lowdown on weather mass produced replicas were made of certain things... this is something that only comes with time and being in the loop.

In learning about gu collecting I find a couple things interesting. Too much hype on descriptions seems to make me skeptical and it usually turns out to be justified. The other thing is that these thousand dollar plus items so many times have photos taken with camera phones. Even on big auction houses. I wish the big houses would set the standard of photo quality higher to make it harder for people who want to pass off something.

LA how do we know for sure that the jersey Robert Edward Auction is legit.
It looks like Goodman made a boat load of these jerseys and anyone could of doctored the jersey to look legit.
Thanks

Yeah... I thought about that but I'd rather take the Mears word over the newbee seller on ebay who "guarantees" money back. You're right though, either Hernandez could be real or fake. Thanks for calling the Fernando to our attentions so someone like me could practice on it and learn. Sometimes I get the idea people don't want to "out" a product on here in order to save money. That strategy has it's pros if you know what you're doing.



Charles

[TNTtoys]

I definetely appreciate your teaching of how to disprove background information. You basically can discover if the person is dishonest or misinformed without even looking at the product.

Just two things here.

I actually delved into the background minutia here because bits and pieces were provided to me (and other prospective buyers). In the absence of actual documentation, sometimes a story can help. In this case it unfortunately didn't.
I would best compare what I did here to a scenario such as... Seller lists a game used cap on ebay with no LOA. States that the cap was acquired after a specific game. I then go through various published photos of the game itself to try to piece it together. I check to see that the team wore that style cap on that day... maybe there is a photo of that player wearing the cap... maybe there is a specific mark on the cap that I can distinguish.

I also like to believe "misinformed" over "dishonest." Suppose the jersey is in fact one of the mass-produced Goodmans. The ebay seller may not have known that at the time and still might not. It could have been sold to him 20+ years ago as "the real deal." This hobby was far from regulated; it still is not in my opinion. What we could be looking at here is a seller who honestly believes he owns game used jerseys of these superstars and has simply forgotten the year in which he bought them.

This type of thing happens all of the time, and are usually honest mistakes. For example, there is an ebay seller right now who has for sale a 1990 Darryl Strawberry Scoreboard promotional jersey. We all know that it's not worth any more than $100.00, but the seller thinks he has a geniune gamer. He has it listed at 11X this amount. Why? Because he bought it for $500+ on ebay recently, thinks it is genuine, and now thinks he's going to flip it and turn a profit. But in reality, he made a couple of honest mistakes. If there were dishonest intentions here, I am sure this guy would not have spent $500+ on a promotional $100 dollar jersey.