Mile High Card Co. - Willie Stargell Coaches Jersey

[Dewey2007]

Can someone help me out with this one. The listing for this Willie Stargell game worn coaches jersey has it attributed to being worn by him during the 1986 season. The problem I find is that Stargell was a coach with the Atlanta Braves during the 1986 season. Does anyone remember if Stargell was a coach with the Pirates during spring training of '86 and would the Pirates even have worn jerseys like this during spring training? Here is the link:

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...100&category=1

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Dewey

[gwh11]

Searching a a newspaper database I found an article on the Braves training camp dated Feb 23, 1986 (the paper is the Aiken Standard, from Aiken SC). The article is accompanied by a photo of Chuck Tanner and Stargell, each in their Braves uniforms for the first training camp workout of that season. So...there's your answer.
-Guy

[Sangy 35]

The Pirates recycled a ton back then, Hartel bought a bunch of jerseys and had the NOB restored professionally. That's where the "excessive" wear comes from from these mid 80's Pirate jerseys, they were all sent to the minors and worn for years after their MLB use. Even the restoration wasn't perfect. For example, I have a 1984 home jersey with Chuck Tanner's name plate on it. It was actually worn according to the inside tagging, by Jose Deleon, sent down, had a number change from #25 to # 7. I also have a Jim Gott 1987 home jersey, that has been beat to death, and had the NOB restored, Gott was only there in 1987 a couple of months. Somebody is going to pay over five hundred bucks for this jersey, and Stargell never touched it. You can't really tell from the pics, but I would bet it has a restored nameplate, and a number change.

[Dewey2007]

Thanks Guy and Sangy 35 for the feeback and for confirming some of my thoughts on this jersey.

I also e-mailed the auction house asking for their feedback on how the jersey could be attributed to Stargell when he was not even with the Pirates in '86. There's only four days left in their auction so I'll be interested to see what they do or if they take the time to respond.

[gwh11]

Yep, Stargell coached for the Pirates in '85, then for the Braves from '86-'88:
http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/stargwi01.php

-Guy

[steelpenguin]

Can someone help me out with this one. The listing for this Willie Stargell game worn coaches jersey has it attributed to being worn by him during the 1986 season. The problem I find is that Stargell was a coach with the Atlanta Braves during the 1986 season. Does anyone remember if Stargell was a coach with the Pirates during spring training of '86 and would the Pirates even have worn jerseys like this during spring training? Here is the link:

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...100&category=1

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Dewey

If anything that MAY have been some kinda game issue jersey. I remember when Leyland got the Pirates job in 1986 that there were several people not real thrilled that Stargell was out (and I am pretty sure that was a Leyland decision to not have Stargell back). If memory serves me right it was not right away that he followed Tanner to Atlanta. That kinda came after the fact and when the dust settled in Pittsburgh, then he went with Tanner.

The Pirates may have had jerseys ready that were never used, but who knows? Like the other post says, those of us that have older Pirates stuff all know that their stuff was used and used and used and used all through the minors. I have head stories about Barry Bonds' early stuff getting recycled ... so everything got altered and used again.

There is not a serious Pirates collector that does not have one if not several of these. The one pictured is a NNOB #53 from 1980. The last few of these I got was from a guy back home that had a bunch of 'em. I paid $100 for a 6 jersey lot ... these early 80's jerseys are everywhere. Several are of player numbers that people would know. I have a #4 Kiner, #40 Murtaugh, #8 Stargell ... now granted that the jerseys that I have were MiLB jerseys, but the Pirates thought nothing of using those numbers at lower levels. Maz did not have his number retired till like 1987, and I've seen #9's like this too.

The point being that that could have been one of the random #8's made for MiLB use and somebody got a hold of a nameplate and made a match. From what one can tell from a photo (which sometimes ain't much) it looks OK with the lettering and such, but if I were to get that, it would not be at a premium price. Again, the Pirates MiLB jerseys are everywhere. Just head to Bradenton once and you will see tons of those getting used for the old guys to sign. I've done that and it happens each year.

[steelpenguin]

Looking again on second glance ... and this is the key. At that point in Stargell's life, he gained a TON of weight. If you can find a photo of him coaching first base you will see that.

I've seen one of the Stargell Braves game used jerseys and the thing is HUGE! No way was Willie fitting into a size 50 in 1986, esp when those things were snug to begin with.

And there lies your answer on this one. That's an MiLB jersey with a #8 and a nameplate was added most likely. Can't tell for sure without holding is and checking alterations ... but my guess that's an MiLB Bucco special! $50 jersey ... maybe! ; )

[steelpenguin]

I looked at it again and it seems to me that I have seen these before. The Steelers collectors will verify this. The Steelers equipment manager for years was a guy by the name of Toni Parisi. He used to have a sporting goods store called Century Sports. For several years Tony did the Penguins jerseys and he did stuff for the Pirates too (and the small numbers on the Pirates jerseys, the shoulder numbers for the Penguins and Steelers are all kinda the same; that's why). That nameplate, albeit the lettering looks good, seems too high above the 8. I’m wondering if this may have been one of the “extra” Pirates jerseys that Tony made for a buddy or something that has now fallen into the wrong hands? That kinda thing happened back then. Heck, Tony even sold some Steelers game issued stuff out of this Mt. Lebanon store up till the early-mid 1990’s. Tony was a pretty nice guy and did favors such as this for people he knew. I’m wondering if this may have been a Parisi special? It very well could be. Perhaps another explanation.

... just trying to think of all the plausible scenarios on this one. Hope that helps.

[Dewey2007]

I looked at it again and it seems to me that I have seen these before. The Steelers collectors will verify this. The Steelers equipment manager for years was a guy by the name of Toni Parisi. He used to have a sporting goods store called Century Sports. For several years Tony did the Penguins jerseys and he did stuff for the Pirates too (and the small numbers on the Pirates jerseys, the shoulder numbers for the Penguins and Steelers are all kinda the same; that's why). That nameplate, albeit the lettering looks good, seems too high above the 8. I’m wondering if this may have been one of the “extra” Pirates jerseys that Tony made for a buddy or something that has now fallen into the wrong hands? That kinda thing happened back then. Heck, Tony even sold some Steelers game issued stuff out of this Mt. Lebanon store up till the early-mid 1990’s. Tony was a pretty nice guy and did favors such as this for people he knew. I’m wondering if this may have been a Parisi special? It very well could be. Perhaps another explanation.

... just trying to think of all the plausible scenarios on this one. Hope that helps.

Thanks for all of the different scenarios. Safe to say I am staying far away from this jersey.

I'll post if I hear anything back from the auction house about what they have to say about the authenticity of the jersey. I'm not familiar with this auction house so hopefully they do the right thing and pull it but you never know.

[steelpenguin]

Thanks for all of the different scenarios. Safe to say I am staying far away from this jersey.

I'll post if I hear anything back from the auction house about what they have to say about the authenticity of the jersey. I'm not familiar with this auction house so hopefully they do the right thing and pull it but you never know.

You are welcome ... the mysteries of this hobby. Seeking the truth and the hunt for it is a constant struggle. Esp for those of us folks that are trusting by good nature. Good question though ... it's amazing how one question can open the box to more and more questions. We all go through it.