Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Michael is on a different level than both of them because he IS basketball. He changed the way the game was played. He changed the marketing of the game which is the reason kids saved entire allowances to buy a pair of his shoes hoping that it could in some way make them jump like Mike. Kid's on playgrounds stuck there tongue out and wore baggy shorts. Kobe modeled his entire game after MJ and Lebron started playing ball because of him. Michael is the ultimate figure in basketball, both Lebron and Kobe could and never will even try to compare themselves to Mike.

You still didn't answer my question. Your say Lebron stats are better then Kobe, so that makes lebron better. But you cant compare stats when it comes to MJ???? How about Magic then, since Lebron stats are better then Magic, is he better then Magic. Stats are what they are NUMBERS..... Numbers don't win championships Heart, Determination, Work Ethic does, in those categories Lebron is behind Kobe.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

You still didn't answer my question. Your say Lebron stats are better then Kobe, so that makes lebron better. But you cant compare stats when it comes to MJ???? How about Magic then, since Lebron stats are better then Magic, is he better then Magic. Stats are what they are NUMBERS..... Numbers don't win championships Heart, Determination, Work Ethic does, in those categories Lebron is behind Kobe.

What I said was that I feel Lebron is better in several areas of the game personally and the stats back that up. If you want to compare stats with MJ and Kobe go right ahead because MJ stats are pretty damn good......Michael also appeared in 6 NBA finals and won all 6 while taking Finals MVP honors for all 6 of them....Kobe will never compare himself to MJ and he shouldn't MJ is on a level all by himself.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Again why do stats make someone better?

[flota89]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Again why do stats make someone better?

Stats are what separate the good from the bad, the great from the good. Thats like trying to say Brendan Ryan (Cardinals shortstop) is as good as Albert Pujols because stats don't make someone better. Maybe I missed your point but stats are very important.

[flota89]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Stats are what separate the good from the bad, the great from the good. Thats like trying to say Brendan Ryan (Cardinals shortstop) is as good as Albert Pujols because stats don't make someone better. Maybe I missed your point but stats are very important.

Had to throw Brendan into this thread. Him and Kobe are my display picture.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RxKoi__4Sg

How many points did Wilt hit from the outside, when he scored 100?
How many of you folks could hit 81 playing against a sixth grader?

I dislike Kobe and I think he is in love with himself. But 82 points is 82 points. Kobe is the greatest L.A. Laker ever.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Stats are what separate the good from the bad, the great from the good. Thats like trying to say Brendan Ryan (Cardinals shortstop) is as good as Albert Pujols because stats don't make someone better. Maybe I missed your point but stats are very important.

My point was two player that are separated by fractions in statistical categories, can not determine the better player. There are more to sports then numbers. The will to win ways heavier then a 1 point difference in scoring, to determine greatness.

[flota89]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

My point was two player that are separated by fractions in statistical categories, can not determine the better player. There are more to sports then numbers. The will to win ways heavier then a 1 point difference in scoring, to determine greatness.

Ok in that case I see what your saying. I dont know how close the stats are between Kobe and Lebron (not an NBA fan) so I can't really say how much better Lebron's stats are or aren't.

[jobathenut]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

This is a joke question,right? I mean come on it is not even a doubt-it's kobe.And the score is 5-0.Its a team sport the last time i checked and kobe makes his team better.And lebron just makes his own personal stats better.Its not about mvp's,its about nba championship's.Kobe bryant is the best player ever!!!!!Yes i said it.......

[jobathenut]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

Some people are just "stat" people.And they rate a player by them as they think thats the measure of greatness.However i am not one of those people.As i think sometimes "stats" are the most over used things in sports.Not the same game and the same era so "stats" are not a good measure.I don't care what sport,"stats" are not everything.And i think the only "stat" that measures the impact of a player in a team sport like basketball is championships.Great players make thier team better.Players that care about thier own "stats" don;t win championships.Do you think kobe cared about his points last night as much as he cared about winning the game.He does'nt care about his own scoring,he just cares that they score.And for the people that might say he has a ego.Or is in love with himself.What pro player does'nt.Are you telling me none the celticks have that "spotlight" look them.Which means they are playing for the camera.Noone does it more than garnet.Again to me "stats" are so overrated to measure greatness.

Again why do stats make someone better?

[jobathenut]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

I totally agree with you.

You still didn't answer my question. Your say Lebron stats are better then Kobe, so that makes lebron better. But you cant compare stats when it comes to MJ???? How about Magic then, since Lebron stats are better then Magic, is he better then Magic. Stats are what they are NUMBERS..... Numbers don't win championships Heart, Determination, Work Ethic does, in those categories Lebron is behind Kobe.

[jobathenut]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

You are saying just what i have always said about the over importance in "stats" in sports.

My point was two player that are separated by fractions in statistical categories, can not determine the better player. There are more to sports then numbers. The will to win ways heavier then a 1 point difference in scoring, to determine greatness.

[TheGreat#8]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

What I said was that I feel Lebron is better in several areas of the game personally and the stats back that up. If you want to compare stats with MJ and Kobe go right ahead because MJ stats are pretty damn good......Michael also appeared in 6 NBA finals and won all 6 while taking Finals MVP honors for all 6 of them....Kobe will never compare himself to MJ and he shouldn't MJ is on a level all by himself.

I am not sure that this is fair on several levels. First, I would think that there would not be too much disagreement that the Bulls played against overall less skilled teams than say the Lakers did in the 80's when they were facing the Celtics as an example. Magic Johnson played in 9 finals and won 5. Twice lost to the Celtics in the finals. I dare say that Michael never had to play teams at that level in the finals and if Magic's Lakers did not play those great Celtic teams he might have at least 7 rings, we will never know. While it is impossible to speculate what might have happened, and Michael could only play who he played, I think that people tend to overemphasize the fact that he was 6 - 0 in those finals. While certinly that is a phenomenal accomplishment, I don't believe that the overall skill level of any of those teams was say on par with the Larry Bird Celtics or even the 08/10 Celtics that the Lakers just played and this sentiment is echoed by several very notable journalist that I recently heard discussing this element as at no time did MJ have to play teams with three future HOF players in the starting lineup. He did have to play very, very good teams with two HOF players in Stockton and Malone in 97 & 98 but at no point did he face teams with the overall depth and quality of a lineup that the Celtics threw out there night in and night out.

The other issue here and it is pure speculation, is that the Lakers are already favored in 2010-11 to threepeat. You say that Kobe should never be compared to MJ. Again, pure speculation, but at 32 what if Kobe gets 2 - 3 more rings. If he wins two more than MJ and were to be named finals MVP in all those finals, you absolutely have to put him in that discussion.

The beauty of this whole thing is that Michael will never play another game again (unless his HOF speech was completely serious that he would play at 50) and Kobe still has 2 - 4 good if not great years ahead of him to keep making a run. I don't think you can put Kobe in that discussion yet, however if he were to win 7 or 8 titles, you absolutely have to do that as it does not matter your feelings on Shaq/Kobe during the first three runs, anybody that can win 6 or more rings in today's grueling NBA with the schedule etc. is accomplishing something amazing given the 4 total rounds of playoffs, and the length of the season. Lets face it, in many ways, MJ was very lucky to have played on teams that remained intact in terms of health. How many times historically have we seen potentially historic teams never reach the pinnicle due to injury. MJ was fortune that his teams never faced a serious injury that derailed the season and kept them from defending their title.

The bottom line is, that it is sheer stupidity for anyone to suggest that at no point, can any player ever be compared to MJ. At some point now or in the future, a great player will come along and do amazing things, win titles, MVP's, take his team to the next level and in sports, that is what you do compare players. Kobe is not MJ, however to suggest that nobody will ever come close to what he did is ridiculous as you cannot know the unknown. It seems like everyone gets caught up in this idea that if you even remotely compare anyone to MJ that you are somehow diminishing or trivializing what he accomplished which could not be further from the truth. While MJ is the gold standard against which others are compared, it is absolutely impossible to say that at no point can anyone ever come close to accomplishing any of those goals and records in the future.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

I am not sure that this is fair on several levels. First, I would think that there would not be too much disagreement that the Bulls played against overall less skilled teams than say the Lakers did in the 80's when they were facing the Celtics as an example. Magic Johnson played in 9 finals and won 5. Twice lost to the Celtics in the finals. I dare say that Michael never had to play teams at that level in the finals and if Magic's Lakers did not play those great Celtic teams he might have at least 7 rings, we will never know. While it is impossible to speculate what might have happened, and Michael could only play who he played, I think that people tend to overemphasize the fact that he was 6 - 0 in those finals. While certinly that is a phenomenal accomplishment, I don't believe that the overall skill level of any of those teams was say on par with the Larry Bird Celtics or even the 08/10 Celtics that the Lakers just played and this sentiment is echoed by several very notable journalist that I recently heard discussing this element as at no time did MJ have to play teams with three future HOF players in the starting lineup. He did have to play very, very good teams with two HOF players in Stockton and Malone in 97 & 98 but at no point did he face teams with the overall depth and quality of a lineup that the Celtics threw out there night in and night out.

The other issue here and it is pure speculation, is that the Lakers are already favored in 2010-11 to threepeat. You say that Kobe should never be compared to MJ. Again, pure speculation, but at 32 what if Kobe gets 2 - 3 more rings. If he wins two more than MJ and were to be named finals MVP in all those finals, you absolutely have to put him in that discussion.

The beauty of this whole thing is that Michael will never play another game again (unless his HOF speech was completely serious that he would play at 50) and Kobe still has 2 - 4 good if not great years ahead of him to keep making a run. I don't think you can put Kobe in that discussion yet, however if he were to win 7 or 8 titles, you absolutely have to do that as it does not matter your feelings on Shaq/Kobe during the first three runs, anybody that can win 6 or more rings in today's grueling NBA with the schedule etc. is accomplishing something amazing given the 4 total rounds of playoffs, and the length of the season. Lets face it, in many ways, MJ was very lucky to have played on teams that remained intact in terms of health. How many times historically have we seen potentially historic teams never reach the pinnicle due to injury. MJ was fortune that his teams never faced a serious injury that derailed the season and kept them from defending their title.

The bottom line is, that it is sheer stupidity for anyone to suggest that at no point, can any player ever be compared to MJ. At some point now or in the future, a great player will come along and do amazing things, win titles, MVP's, take his team to the next level and in sports, that is what you do compare players. Kobe is not MJ, however to suggest that nobody will ever come close to what he did is ridiculous as you cannot know the unknown. It seems like everyone gets caught up in this idea that if you even remotely compare anyone to MJ that you are somehow diminishing or trivializing what he accomplished which could not be further from the truth. While MJ is the gold standard against which others are compared, it is absolutely impossible to say that at no point can anyone ever come close to accomplishing any of those goals and records in the future.

Sure guys will have talent and stats that might surpass MJ, what I am saying is that as far as a player revolutionizing the game or setting the standard and changing the game on many levels, no one can be compared. Some goes for Babe Ruth, the impact he had on the game was something no one can compare to even though some of his numbers will be surpassed.

Sports is more than stats as you said earlier, I never relied upon stats soley when making my arguments....its what I see and how I feel. Kobe very well be the best player in the league it just depends upon how you view it. To me Lebron is the best overall player for the way I view it....and I was pointing out the stats don't say otherwise.....

I dont think the ring comparison is fair yet because Lebron has half of the seasons Kobe has had.....and once again its Kobe's situation that has allowed for the rings, Lakers are the best team in basketball no question....but if you put Kobe on the Cavs he would not have 5 rings right now.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

This is a joke question,right? I mean come on it is not even a doubt-it's kobe.And the score is 5-0.Its a team sport the last time i checked and kobe makes his team better.And lebron just makes his own personal stats better.Its not about mvp's,its about nba championship's.Kobe bryant is the best player ever!!!!!Yes i said it.......

By your argument of Kobe 5 to Lebron's 0. Then Bill Russell's 11 to Kobe's 5 would make Bill Russell better........