Pro-Cut, Game Issued & Game Ready Jerseys - a Definition

[trsent]

Since we debate over this subject, can people reply with there definition of this?

What exactly constitutes a pro-cut, game issued and team issued jersey?

Does a team issued jersey have to come from the team?

What happens when you have a jersey that meets all the specs and tagging of a player but is six sizes too large or too small? Isn't this still a game issued jersey? I do not feel there is a right or wrong answer to this scenario.

People that try to sell a mass produced authentic jersey as team or game issued. For instance, isn't the Manning with short sleeves still a team-issued jersey, since the team is the only one that can get a jersey cut like that?

[Nathan]

I tend to view a TI/GI as being one that was specifically made up for a player that simply did not see the field of play. You do bring up an interesting point about sizing; I know of at least one case where a player who wore a certain size his entire career played with his jersey up a size after suffering a mild shoulder injury. I think it was two games into the season, so his smaller-sized backup jersey would still be TI/GI even though it would have only hung in the locker for a game or two.

As far as a certain cut being only made available to the team, I don't go for that. Peyton Manning has yet to wear short sleeves in a game, just as Brett Favre never wore linemen sleeves in a 1994 NFL game with the throwback unis. Someone taking a bunch of game-style blanks and customizing them for star players (notice there's never a Jerry Fontenot GI/TI jersey for sale) is less GI and more COITS (Clearing Out Inventory To Sell). But taking a team blank and throwing a name and number on it is, to me, no different than a fan slapping his own name and number on a blank authentic. With that case, both of them have about the same connection to the team.

[Eric]

Great topic

You have earned a sticky.
Eric

[trsent]

The Favre throwback jerseys is a good issue to add to this discussion. (I got another Sticky!)

Not too many people know the story behind them. The Packers had about 100 extra throwback blank jerseys left over after the 1994 season. When Grey Flannel made a bulk purchase from them after the 1996 Super Bowl Season, The Packers offered them these 100 jerseys made up as Brett Favre. The Packers sent them out to there own lettering place and lettered all the extra 1994 throwback jerseys as Brett Favre.

Most of these jerseys were marked inside with green marker "NGU", meaning "Not Game Used". This was done by Grey Flannel to make sure that they could not be passed off as game used. Here is the question, aren't these jerseys all game/team issued? They may not be made to Brett Favre's specs, as actually a few were. Aren't the jerseys with linemen sleeves still team issued?

[RKGIBSON]

I have know Kevin Greene since 93. I ask him about the alteration that were done to his jerseys when he was with the Panthers. He says that at the beginning of the year, or when he wanted his jerseys changed, the equipment guy would have them put the team issued jersey on and they would mark with chalk where he wanted them altered. Modifications were made then they were tried on as many times a it took to get the fit he wanted. The finished product was used as a pattern for the game jerseys. All were modified the same.
He also said that when he was with the Steelers he would sign an average of 10 team issue jerseys a week for the equipment manager and he did not know where they went.
I see so many Pro-cut jersey, that are sold by the team stores, in auctions as game used. These are the jerseys that are not the correct size, not shortened or have wrong sleeves, etc. The team issue jerseys are the correct size and sleeves that are ordered by the team to the players specs needing minor alterations such as tails cut. The Cowboys must have released a lot of game ready, not used, jerseys recently as many were on Ebay, called game used, but with no wear.

[bigtime59]

Since we debate over this subject, can people reply with there definition of this?

What exactly constitutes a pro-cut, game issued and team issued jersey?

Does a team issued jersey have to come from the team?

What happens when you have a jersey that meets all the specs and tagging of a player but is six sizes too large or too small? Isn't this still a game issued jersey? I do not feel there is a right or wrong answer to this scenario.

People that try to sell a mass produced authentic jersey as team or game issued. For instance, isn't the Manning with short sleeves still a team-issued jersey, since the team is the only one that can get a jersey cut like that?

If I buy a blank 48 + 2" year-tagged Orioles jersey at Fanfest (thank goodness that stream has dried up) have "Ripken" and "8" sewn on it in the proper places and sell it as a "team issued Cal Ripken jersey" does that make me merely dishonest, or something more?

By my definition, a "team-issued" jersey has to have originated with the team, and been made for the player in question. (There are exceptions to this rule, as the Orioles did re-issue some jerseys in 1994, so you have name plates on the jersey that don't match the name on the year tag, but that kind of thing doesn't happen with the "superstar" jerseys this thread is probably actually concerned with.)

BTW, how would someone come up with a "team issued" or "pro cut" Russell Alex Rodriguez Mariners jersey in some absurdly large size? Could they have availed themselves of Mariners blanks in the great Russell dump-off that followed Majestic getting the contract for the league, and then had the Pay-Rod name and number sewn on it? Hmmmmm. I wonder about these things. I just don't buy these things.

[allstarsplus]

I think of Pro-cut jerseys as a Salesman sample or Retail jersey with correct tagging. They may have alterations like the ones UDA sold of Michael Jordan. They are tagged like gamers but never would be used for a game.

A game issued should be in the locker room and just not used. They need to have all the proper tagging.

I think the bigger issue is calling a jersey game used when the player never played in the game. We see this with pitcher's jerseys and throwbacks. The throwbacks are worn for 1 game and you check the boxscore to see the player never got into the game. I know the auctions on MLB.com calls them game used both ways. The discussion comes up on Pedro's real pitching jerseys vs. the jerseys he wears in the dugouts on days he doesn't pitch.

[trsent]

I think the bigger issue is calling a jersey game used when the player never played in the game. We see this with pitcher's jerseys and throwbacks. The throwbacks are worn for 1 game and you check the boxscore to see the player never got into the game. I know the auctions on MLB.com calls them game used both ways. The discussion comes up on Pedro's real pitching jerseys vs. the jerseys he wears in the dugouts on days he doesn't pitch.

Good topic for us to discuss.

A player who is on the active roster who doesn't play in a game but is in the dugout ready to play (or maybe even injured but in uniform) has always been considered to be a "Game Used" jersey.

How about this, when a coach's or manager's jersey is sold it is listed as "Game Used" when a hitting coach may never leave the dugout?

[Eric]

Here's what the definition should be, and there is no room for intepretation

A game issued jersey is a jersey that was made for a specific player with the intention of having it used in a game

There it is- It's very simple.

A team-issued blank jersey which has had numbers and a nameplate added to resemble what would have been a game issued jersey is not a game issued jersey. It is a modified team issued blank jersey made to look like something it isn't likely so someone can profit.

How many times have we seen people pay thousands of dollars on '94 Favre throwbacks, which were described as game issued or even had an LOA saying it was game worn with no wear on it.

A retail jersey is not a game issued jersey any way you cut it.

A jersey which is of a style that the player would never have worn (lineman sleeves on a Favre, or short sleeves on a Manning) in my definition is not a game issued jersey

Sellers take liberty with these definitions and people end up spending their money on pieces that aren't what they think they are.

I'm sorry folks if it brings your final prices down on these items, but it's better to be honest and not flood the market with non game issued items.

Buyers need to do their homework, and so do sellers.
Eric

[trsent]

Eric, you are the next Webster.