Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

[gingi79]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

My first response is, had he re-signed with Cleveland, does anyone think their current team would win a title in the next 5 years? If you do, I question if you are thinking as a die hard blinded Cavs fan. I just cannot believe an NBA fan with knowledge of what it takes to win today would think the Cavs had a chance.

After reading the responses to this thread, my suspicions have been largely confirmed. So let me "wade" (sorry for the Pun) through everything that was said with great emphasis and euphemistic language to get to the core response.

Had Lebron recruited Wade and Bosh to play in Cleveland rather than Wade recruiting James and Bosh to Miami, no one would be upset? That's how I read it. People are pissed he left Cleveland because Cleveland is the ugly girl with a great personality that everyone likes but no one wants to date. So because he picked Jessica Simpson instead of Nicki Blonsky (the girl from Hairspray) we should be pissed because Nicki is so nice and never gets any love?

Cleveland's poor athletic history is not LeBron James' fault. Oh he's from there? Why is that relevant? Anyone who followed this debacle should know they all got together and didn't sign in Ohio BECAUSE they are young, very rich guys who want to party. Does that make him immature? Is he thinking with the wrong head? Sure! And I'll be honest enough to say, I CAN'T BLAME HIM for wanting to live in Miami rather than Cleveland.

I started this thread saying I understand Cavs fans being pissed the best player in your history spurned you. I'm a Canucks fan, ask me how heart wrenching Pavel Bure's trade was for me. If you are mad AS A CAVS FAN, then I accept you have reason to hate him. However, Cleveland doesn't offer anything for these guys except fans. Nothing. So the problem is..... Cleveland. You can't make it South Beach or LA or NYC. Once again, not LeBron's fault that there is nothing to attract Free Agents.

Fans will always be in whatever town he plays for. If you want to hate him because of how he left, fine. But hating a guy for fearing Cleveland will never win a title seems counterproductive. Cleveland has never won a title in the NBA. He'd rather team up and party and enjoy his life and have other players help him get over the hump. If he falls on his face, then laugh at him and feel redeemed that he was wrong.

[otismalibu]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

My first response is, had he re-signed with Cleveland, does anyone think their current team would win a title in the next 5 years?

In what league does a current team play together for 5 years?

I just cannot believe an NBA fan with knowledge of what it takes to win today would think the Cavs had a chance.

Yeah, the Cavs have been terrible the last couple of seasons and would most likely continue to be terrible with James.

Had Lebron recruited Wade and Bosh to play in Cleveland rather than Wade recruiting James and Bosh to Miami, no one would be upset?

I'd want Wade to retire with the Heat. He was The King in that Finals against the Mavs. Still not sure how they won. No one wants to play in Toronto. Players get good and they leave. Farm team.

Cleveland has never won a title in the NBA.

So let's just remove all the NBA teams who have never won a title. Obviously, if they've not won a title yet, they never will. Perfect logic.

He plays basketball for a living. He make huge amounts of money. He's treated like royalty. Yet he still had to find a way to make things a little easier. Maybe they should let him shoot at a larger hoop in the 4th quarter too.

[Nathan]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

My first response is, had he re-signed with Cleveland, does anyone think their current team would win a title in the next 5 years? If you do, I question if you are thinking as a die hard blinded Cavs fan. I just cannot believe an NBA fan with knowledge of what it takes to win today would think the Cavs had a chance.

After reading the responses to this thread, my suspicions have been largely confirmed. So let me "wade" (sorry for the Pun) through everything that was said with great emphasis and euphemistic language to get to the core response.

Had Lebron recruited Wade and Bosh to play in Cleveland rather than Wade recruiting James and Bosh to Miami, no one would be upset? That's how I read it. People are pissed he left Cleveland because Cleveland is the ugly girl with a great personality that everyone likes but no one wants to date. So because he picked Jessica Simpson instead of Nicki Blonsky (the girl from Hairspray) we should be pissed because Nicki is so nice and never gets any love?

People are pissed because the Cavaliers bent over backwards to cater to his every desire, and he still went the jackass route in the way that this all happened. I said a couple times before that if I make up my mind to switch jobs or make a major move, the intimately involved parties will have knowledge as early as possible so that they can move on.

The fact that Cleveland was left on the line at the expense of making pitches for other free agents (or adding draft picks, or several other things) is...well, it's not right.

Cleveland's poor athletic history is not LeBron James' fault. Oh he's from there? Why is that relevant? Anyone who followed this debacle should know they all got together and didn't sign in Ohio BECAUSE they are young, very rich guys who want to party. Does that make him immature? Is he thinking with the wrong head? Sure! And I'll be honest enough to say, I CAN'T BLAME HIM for wanting to live in Miami rather than Cleveland.

I can, but I'm a fiercely proud and very biased Ohioan.

I started this thread saying I understand Cavs fans being pissed the best player in your history spurned you. I'm a Canucks fan, ask me how heart wrenching Pavel Bure's trade was for me. If you are mad AS A CAVS FAN, then I accept you have reason to hate him. However, Cleveland doesn't offer anything for these guys except fans. Nothing. So the problem is..... Cleveland. You can't make it South Beach or LA or NYC. Once again, not LeBron's fault that there is nothing to attract Free Agents.

Cleveland is a city desperate enough for someone to adore that past greats (who honestly weren't great in an all-time context) are revered to the level of demigods. The most popular Cavs are Mark Price and Brad Dougherty. The most popular Browns are Bernie Kosar and a number of other lesser players. The most popular Indians would come from the 1990s. And so on.

The common theme is what I've referred to as "the Moses Effect". A player who plays an integral role in a team's rise from the abyss to either glory or the cusp of glory and doesn't shoot himself in the foot is revered. Trevor Linden would be a good comparison; even if he had become a permanent fourth-liner in the lockout year, there's always 1994. And unlike some others from that team (Jeff Brown and Bure), he didn't do anything on his own to screw that up.

Fans will always be in whatever town he plays for. If you want to hate him because of how he left, fine. But hating a guy for fearing Cleveland will never win a title seems counterproductive. Cleveland has never won a title in the NBA. He'd rather team up and party and enjoy his life and have other players help him get over the hump. If he falls on his face, then laugh at him and feel redeemed that he was wrong.

I tell my wife all the time that I'd rather be recognized as right and see my vision come to pass then rather than be vindicated years down the road. Cleveland's lack of success in the NBA is both obvious and yet was still changing. From 17 wins in 2002-03 to 127 wins over the last two years...every great team has had to face adversity and come up short before breaking through. Edmonton in the early 80s lost to the Kings and got stomped by the Islanders before breaking through. The Islanders had several disappointments. Detroit had plenty of disappointments. Colorado had years of them in Quebec. And so on.

[JasonM33]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

Lebron is getting a lot of hate because of the way he has conducted himself. The "Decision" and his introductory celebration in Miami were very tacky and off-putting. Then he starts counting off 6, 7, 8 championships like they've already been won. Dude, how about you win one first. If he pretended to have a little humility then he might win some fans back.

However he want's to spin it, leaving Cleveland to join Wade and Bosh is going to cheapen any championships that they "may" win in the future. His so-called legacy that fans and sportswriters are so obessed with, is going to take a hit. Right or wrong he is going to be seen as a guy who couldn't beat them so he joined them. Then if they don't win at least a couple of championships he's going to be an even bigger joke.

Good luck dude

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

It's about the bucks. Cleveland seems to have a unfair City Wage tax and when coupled with the tax rate of the State of Ohio, it's about a 8% hit just in City and State taxes.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/11962

In Florida, there aren't any State Income taxes. Read the below article and while some people think it's Patriotic to pay their taxes, some people MAY NOT feel the same way.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/26503.html

Read both articles and you guys decide.

Jim

PS: Hope I didn't offend anyone

[BostonSportsFan]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

This year:
Salary cap is 58 million. Currently under contract is:

Jamison 13.3 Million
Mo Williams 9.3 Mil
Varejo-7 Mil
Gibson-4 mil.
Moon-3 mil
Parker-2.8 mil.
Telfair-2.7 mil
Hickson-1.5 Mil.
Powe-915,000
Williams-1 mil.

Non guarenteed
West-4.5 mil.-500k guarenteed if cut.
Green-762,000

Next year
Jamison-15 mil.
Mo Williams 8.5 mil.
Varejo-7.7 Mil.
Gibson 4.4 mil.

What you have to take into consideration here is Jamison's huge expiring contract could be major trade bait next year or during the 11/12 season. Jamison is under contract only through 2011/12. The Cavs currently only have 22 Million guarenteed in 2012/13. I know in a world where everyone wants everything right now, that it would be extremely difficult for the Queen to wait two more seasons to win but again, he would be 27 years old then. At that point with him on the roster maxed out, they would have been at least 18 mil under the cap and still have the annual mid level exception to spend plus veteran minimum contracts that they could spend even if they went over the cap. That is also considering that if LeBron wants to win so bad, take a pay cut to stay home, leave $5 - $8 mil a year on the table like he was willing to do in Miami and allow the Cavs to use that to sign future players when they have the roster open to be able to do that. Also in 2012/13, Mo Williams, Gibson and Hickson are also all in expiring contracts, so again, you can use them as trade bait if you wanted to to pick up other expiring contracts or try to get actual decent players off of teams trying to clear space themselves.

Lets say that LeBron said to Bosh and Wade, I am not leaving and that is that. Maybe Bosh came, maybe he didn't, but people are really serious that they think if the money was available, maybe not this year, maybe next year etc. that someone would not have taken a max contract to play in Cleveland. I love Miami too but come on guys that is stupidity.

Yeah, you still have to fill out a roster, but you can do that with the mid level and veterans minimum contracts that are available as the heat are doing now even if you are over the cap.

You can't tell me that veteran players would not take the minimum to go play in Cleveland if he elected to stay just because it was Cleveland if they really thought that they could in fact win.

Cleveland did not need a major roster overhaul, again, best record in the league two straight years. If they got a really good shooter or two and someone servicable off the bench, they could have at least competed for and probably gotten out of the East in the next two years.

Again, I don't care that he left, but to suggest that just because Cleveland has never won that they never will is just ridiculous. If you get the right front office people to run the team, anything can be accomplished. Look at teams like San Antonio, Boston, LA, Miami now in terms of maximizing what you have to spend, making the right decisions, putting good contracts on the table etc.

It might have taken a few more years but it could have been done. The Queen just did not want to wait around instead he wanted to take the easy way out.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

What do you guys think of Chris Paul demanding a trade? Unlike Lebron he has TWO YEARS left on his deal. He wants to go to the Magic where he can join Dwight Howard to form the league's best big man-point guard combo with the league's strongest supporting cast even if they have to trade Nelson and another player or two and some picks for him. Championships likely would follow and the Hornets the only team he ever played for would be left with one of the league's worst rosters.

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

What do you guys think of Chris Paul demanding a trade? Unlike Lebron he has TWO YEARS left on his deal. He wants to go to the Magic where he can join Dwight Howard to form the league's best big man-point guard combo with the league's strongest supporting cast even if they have to trade Nelson and another player or two and some picks for him. Championships likely would follow and the Hornets the only team he ever played for would be left with one of the league's worst rosters.

At least he gave the Hornets more than 5 minutes notice,unlike Leb_tch James !

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

Saw the following attributed to Kevin Garnett: He has stated that you can't get back youth and he regrets being as loyal to the Twolves as he was and if he could do it over he would have forced his way out years before he finally did.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

The NBA has bigger divas than Hollywood!

Dave Miedema

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

The NBA has bigger divas than Hollywood!

Dave Miedema

I actually find it really funny. Everyone gives this so much attention, in other sports guys change teams constantly. Cliff Lee one of best arms in MLB has been on four teams since 2008, with a fifth to come in 2011 possibly. Arod has been on three teams, Griffey was on four and on and on.

The NBA has had superteams for years. Bird had McHale, Parrish, Johnson, Archibald, McAdoo and Walton as Teamates. Magic had Worthy and Abdul Jabbar. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. The Pistons had Thomas, Dumars and Rodman. The 70s Knicks had Monroe, Frazier, Reed, Dave D., Lucas and Bradley. The 60s Celts had Bill Russell, Havlicheck, Cousy, Cowens, Henishon, Sharman and Sam Jones. Robertson changed teams to team up with Kareem. Wilt changed teams to team with West and Baylor. This Bosh, Wade and James team is no different and is actually inferior to many of those teams.

[otismalibu]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

The NBA has had superteams for years. Bird had McHale, Parrish, Johnson, Archibald, McAdoo and Walton as Teamates. Magic had Worthy and Abdul Jabbar. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. The Pistons had Thomas, Dumars and Rodman. The 70s Knicks had Monroe, Frazier, Reed, Dave D., Lucas and Bradley. The 60s Celts had Bill Russell, Havlicheck, Cousy, Cowens, Henishon, Sharman and Sam Jones. Robertson changed teams to team up with Kareem. Wilt changed teams to team with West and Baylor. This Bosh, Wade and James team is no different and is actually inferior to many of those teams.

My head is starting to hurt. You do realize a good portion of the players listed above were drafted by the team, right?

Go thru each NBA season and list the top 3 players from that year. Then make a list of instances where one of those top 3 players went to a team that included one of the other two.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

My head is starting to hurt. You do realize a good portion of the players listed above were drafted by the team, right?

Go thru each NBA season and list the top 3 players from that year. Then make a list of instances where one of those top 3 players went to a team that included one of the other two.

1. Back in the day the league had many less teams and no salary cap so teams were able to stockpile good players via the draft and keep them.

2. Free agency is a relatively new thing so many of the players I listed did not have the right to pick and choose teams.

3. Wade is not a top three player. He is not the 2006 version anymore. Kobe, Howard, Durant, Lebron are defintely superior. In no particular order guys like Garnett (when healthy), Duncan, Dirk, Nash, Derrick Rose, Carmelo and Chris Paul are arguably equal or superior players. While defintely top ten top three is a reach.In history similar moves are Moses Malone going to Philly and helping your man Dr. J. get his ring. Robertson going to play with Kareem and Wilt joining Baylor and West. All of those players were top ten players joining other top ten players.

Originally I opposed the move but after thinking about it I have no problem with it.

[otismalibu]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

Wade is not a top three player. He is not the 2006 version anymore. Kobe, Howard, Durant, Lebron are defintely superior.

I'll admit I don't keep up much with hoops anymore. But if he's healthy. I'd still put Wade in the top 3 with Bryant & James. He's not even 30 yet. Howard has to be one of the most overrated players I've seen. Haven't seen much of Durant, but he looks good. Still young.

Moses going to the Sixers was in the ballpark. Erving MVP in '81, Malone MVP in '82, teamed up in '83 where Malone was MVP again. No Bosh-like addition to that team and Doc was 4 years older than Wade and on the downside of his career. One ring and done for that team.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

I'll admit I don't keep up much with hoops anymore. But if he's healthy. I'd still put Wade in the top 3 with Bryant & James. He's not even 30 yet. Howard has to be one of the most overrated players I've seen. Haven't seen much of Durant, but he looks good. Still young.

Moses going to the Sixers was in the ballpark. Erving MVP in '81, Malone MVP in '82, teamed up in '83 where Malone was MVP again. No Bosh-like addition to that team and Doc was 4 years older than Wade and on the downside of his career. One ring and done for that team.

There is no guarentee the Heat will even get one, the Lakers, Magic and Celts are tough, very deep teams. What I like about it is it creates a buzz around the NBA that there has not been in awhile and it will lure more fans into the game and create an attraction that fans clamor to see when it comes to town, even if it is to boo them as a villian team like they do to the Yankees in alot of cities.