Red Flags!

[Eric]

Hey everyone-
I thought it might be a good idea to start a master list of game used items which are red flags. Doesn't mean these things are always fakes, it just means that there's reason to question. Please feel free to add to the list with info to back up your statements.
Share the knowledge!
Eric
moderator

Red Flags in the game used hobby
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Item:
1994 Brett Favre Packers throwback jersey

Reason:
Extra blank throwback jerseys were issued in various cuts and have trickled into the market as game used.

See gameusedforum.com archive

http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/message/1109538475/last-1111635649/94+FAVRE+THROWBACK+ON+AMERICAN+AUCTION

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Item:
1989 Ken Griffey Jr. Mariners rookie jersey

Reason:
Scoreboard produced many replicas with "proper tagging" which were sold with griffey's autograph.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/38322...ge/1122350271/
A year later scoreboard released replicas with "Griffey Jr." on the nameplate signed by Ken Jr and Ken Sr.
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Item:
Larry Bird home Celtics jersey 1991-92

Reason:
Too many on the market.
Space between the numbers and word "Celtics" could help you determine if yours is the real deal
http://www.network54.com/Forum/37997...230516/Spacing..
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Item:
Pujols X-bat with dominican flag

Reason:
Many are on the market, but Pujols has never used a bat with dominican flag on it

http://www.network54.com/Forum/383222/message/1117722306/

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[finest_collectibles]

Re: Red Flags!

Item:
Mike Piazza Rawlings Bats

Reason:
Piazza NEVER uses Rawlings in games due to contract with Mizuno. Rawlings bats used strictly in batting practice.

Currently 2 Rawlings "Game" Used bats running on Ebay

[sportscentury]

Re: Red Flags!

Eric,

This is a great thread to start. Here are the first three off of the top of my head:

1) 2003 Texas Rangers jerseys with set 3 tags. MeiGray bought out the Rangers' team stock from 2003 (actually, they have purchased jerseys from 1996 to present from the Rangers) and I personally went through these jerseys (ultimately selecting what is, in my opinion, the finest AROD jersey from his 2003 MVP season - simply ridiculous wear) and there was not a single set 3 jersey. All of the ones from the Rangers had set 1 or set 2 tagging and they all had the Rangers' extra serial code tag on the inside. And, yes, the set 1 and set 2 jerseys from the Rangers (at MeiGray) are the ones that actually show real game wear. There is a boatload of set 3 Rangers jerseys from 2003 of superstar players. I am not saying that they are not game worn, but I've never seen one that shows any game wear and not one of them came from the Rangers/MeiGray.

2) Manny Ramirez Red Sox jerseys from the last few years with the giant-font year tags and the same manufactured dirt patterns on the front. These jerseys always have the same dirt patterns that actually cover the tagging (as if Manny slid into base head first all of the time with his shirt tail out)!! Some of these jerseys are listed as being from certain games. In the old gameusedforum, there was a post by a member who stated that he watched a game from which one of the supposedly game used Manny jerseys came and Manny never slid into base or got dirty at all ... yet the shirt had the same exact dirt pattern on the front as all of them do. They come with Manny's own letter, signed by him ... but it doesn't mean a thing. There are a boatload of these. Here again, I'm not saying that they are not game worn ... but I wouldn't touch one of these with a 10-foot pole. The Manny jerseys that I've seen that I know are real and game used have the normal Boston tagging (consistent with the tagging across Red Sox players for that year) and not a single one has the dirt pattern that you find on all of the Manny jerseys that come with his signed letter.

3) Phillies superstar Wilson jerseys from the late 1970s and 1980s that have a year/set tag with a dash in between the year and the set numbers. There should be no dash. For example, a set 1 Steve Carlton shirt from 1985 should have a strip tag that reads "85 1" ... if you see one that reads "85-1", stay away. These were extras that someone made up and they have been floating around for years (Howard Wold could add endless red flags here, I'm certain, but this is one of the most common ones to look out for). I have seen these "dash" jerseys for Rose, Schmidt, and Lefty. They may have been made up for other popular players, too (like Bowa, the Bull, Maddox, etc.), but I haven't seen them.

Reid

[allstarsplus]

Re: Red Flags!

Barry Bonds

Be careful of "game used" bats, gloves, cleats, jackets, pants, jerseys from 1999 - present that don't have either his hologram on them and in the case of his jerseys that don't have the Bonds Authenticated patch.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Red Flags!

1) 1990 Jose Canseco home jerseys. There are a boatload of these out there which are always tagged "2 90". How Jose managed to have at least
40 "Set 2" home jerseys, I'm not quite sure. I've never seen one tagged "1 90". I suspect these came from Scoreboard as theyre always autographed as well.

2) 1994 Frank Thomas 'Wilson' jerseys. The early 90's were a mess for White Sox jerseys with both Russell and Wilson supplying the team. I have yet to find a single picture of Frank wearing a Wilson jersey in 1994 where I have seen tons of pictures of him wearing Russell jerseys. Not surprisingly, the majority of 1994 Frank Thomas jerseys out there are Wilson jerseys. Find me a single picture of him wearing a Wilson jersey in 1994 and I'll retract my opinion. (While both Wilson and Russell supplied the White Sox in the early 90's, photographic evidence suggests the White Sox favored Russell jerseys).

3) 1994 Chicago White Sox Russell jersey tagging. For me, there isn't a more muddled situation than early 90's White Sox jerseys. Not only were 2 companies supplying the team with jerseys, but I've seen at least 3 different tagging variations for the Russell jerseys alone. (1994 seems to be a big year for White Sox jerseys out there).
It's my opinion that the proper tagging for a 1994 White Sox jersey should read:
"35 - THOMAS - 46 + 2 - 94" - (Number - Name + Additional Length - Year)
or
"12 - GREBECK - 40 + 0 - 94".

I've seen everything from Russell tagging that reads just "1994" to "THOMAS 1994" to "35 - 46 - 94".


Rudy.

[Eric]

Re: Red Flags!

Item:
Pujols X-bat with dominican flag

Reason:
Many are on the market, but Pujols has never used a bat with dominican flag on it

http://www.network54.com/Forum/383222/message/1117722306/

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Here's a link to a Pujols xbat with dominican flag sticker currently on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-2004-Game-Used-Bat-Cardinals-MVP_W0QQitemZ8727496365QQcategoryZ60596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Birdbats]

Re: Red Flags!

Along with Pujols X-bats w/ flag, beware of Pujols Mizuno bats. In fact, you should use caution with just about all Pujols bats. For information on characteristics you should look for in a Pujols bat, check out the Pujols bat buyer's guide at http://www.birdbats.com.

If you see a McGwire Cardinals-era bat advertised as "uncracked, no deadwood," that's a red flag. With few exceptions, McGwire used bats until they were unusable -- the Cardinals HOF/museum even has a sign with its McGwire display that says as much.

A Jim Edmonds bat without his signature spiral handle tape job is a red flag. He'll use an untaped bat for BP, but not in a game.

[hblakewolf]

Re: Red Flags!

Reid-
The dash between the year and set tag is a dead giveaway. REAL Phillies jerseys manufactured by Wilson never have this dash. There are dozens of 1980 and 1981 Rose, Schmidt, Carlton, and Bowa's floating around with the bad tagging. Should you be offered one-run.

How about this Brett jersey to further show what a bogus Wilson tag looks like. This is sad!

http://cgi.ebay.com/GEORGE-BRETT-GAME-WORN-1982-KANSAS-CITY-ROYALS-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ8731394325QQcategoryZ60597QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Red Flags!

Equipment authenticators who issue letters of opinion but don't back their letters up. Would this be a red flag?

[davetiki]

Re: Red Flags!

Here is another Pujols bat with a flag.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALBERT-PUJOLS-2004-VERY-RARE-GAME-USED-X-BAT_W0QQitemZ8733530062QQcategoryZ60596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I contacted the seller and here was his reply:

"it's obvious you don't know anything about albert pujols. the bat is from ASI and ASI deals with albert pujols, alex rodriguez. they have been selling game used items for over 5 years. go do some research on someone else and if you don't like the bat don't buy it."

I am so grateful for sites like this so that people can be educated so they can pick out the fakes like this.

davidzirnhelt1@yahoo.com

[EndzoneSports]

Re: Red Flags!

Like the '94 Favre Throwback jersey that Eric mentions, the same can apparently be said for the '94 Broncos Thowbacks of Elway--particularly the white "road" variation.

This jersey was worn for for only one game on Sep 26 @ Buffalo. In the late 90s we had purchased, owned and subsequently sold (in good faith) what we believed at that time was the one and only game-worn jersey from this game. We subsequenetly learned, however, that several of these "unique" jerseys exist. AMI of Las Vegas has auctioned at least two if not three different jerseys of this type (all authenticated by Lou Lampson), one in Oct 2004 and a second in Apr of '05 (each was auto'd in a differnt color Sharpie). There was also a 3rd unautographed jersey that was auctioned by AMI in 2002, which they argued may have been one of the same two previously mentioned that had since been signed (granted).
Not to pick on AMI, Grey Flannel was apparently in on the action as well. Not only did they authenticate the jersey which mentioned above as having owned at one time (LOA #M.N. 949B), but that also authenticated at least two others that we were made aware of as well (LOA #R.V. 342E and Lot #1130, 5/2001)

For additional details, see article "Unique" Elway Jerseys Aboud on our web site at http://endzone.pscoggin.com/gunews.htm

[indyred]

Re: Red Flags!

Good info in here, any new one's.......

[Nathan]

Re: Red Flags!

Peyton Manning jerseys from any year (college or pro) with short sleeves.

[suave1477]

Re: Red Flags!

Here is another Pujols bat with a flag.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALBERT-PUJOLS-2004-VERY-RARE-GAME-USED-X-BAT_W0QQitemZ8733530062QQcategoryZ60596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I contacted the seller and here was his reply:

"it's obvious you don't know anything about albert pujols. the bat is from ASI and ASI deals with albert pujols, alex rodriguez. they have been selling game used items for over 5 years. go do some research on someone else and if you don't like the bat don't buy it."

I am so grateful for sites like this so that people can be educated so they can pick out the fakes like this.

davidzirnhelt1@yahoo.com

Here is something interesting the seller is also selling a REAL Albert Pujols Jersey or at least its authenticated by Mears with an A5. Are you sure the bat was fake? Unfortunately ebay has taken down the photos of the bat so we can't see them, but what made you think the bat was a fake?

[Eric]

Re: Red Flags!

It was an x-bat with a domincan flag on it. According to Birdbats research, Pujols never used those. They could be ordered by anyone on the internet and many ended up in the hobby as game used.
Eric