Ethics of buying from a kid

[Chris78]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

As a former sports card store owner I can clearly tell you that if you buy/trade with a minor, the parents have legal rights to void the contract as you cannot enter into a contract with a minor.

Buying or selling or trading with a minor, this is a risk all merchants take but it is also when common sense has to be used.

I remember back when I was that age that I had bought at baseball card shows. Some dealers sold to me while others may have wanted a parent. However, the real reason why I may have gotten my father would be to help "deal" with the dealer depending on the situation. My father told me then that sometimes you may not have to pay that price and he was normally correct. A dealer is more likely to "deal" with an adult then with a kid.

As far as with the situation mentioned with the college ball for $20, it would probably be a good topic for a college business classroom discussion. You could add info to it (i.e. middle aged man was player's father, 10-11 year old wanted a cracked bat from team store that was $20) to see how people's opinions would change on the topic. Personally, as I stated above, the ball is probably not worth $20. A grown adult buying a ball from a kid could be viewed unethical and I personally would not do this unless the ball was very special to me in some way (my child's, relative's home run ball and I would talk to the parents as well to show the meaning of the ball). Also, nobody has stated that the ball may not have had that much meaning to the kid and the $20 might mean a lot more as he could buy something that means more to him. Should the kid have to keep the ball then if the ball does not mean anything to him?

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

There are also times, too, where a slick kid can take advantage of a clueless adult. One need look no further than the Nolan Ryan rookie card case of about 20 years ago.

A suburban store owner had a Ryan rookie card out with a price tag that read $3000. A smart but unethical kid asked to see the card, and asked the woman behind the counter if the card was $30.00 (not $3,000). The woman, the owner's wife, who didn't know a rookie card from a Christmas card, agreed, and sold the kid the card for 1% of the actual price. The kid's purchase became a news story in our area...the kid's dad, from whom he apparently learned his lousy ethics, defended his kid's actions, while the store owner filed a lawsuit. The issue had a happy ending, though, as both parties agreed to put the card up for a charity auction, in which the card, now slabbed and authenticated as THE Nolan Ryan rookie card (from the dispute) went for around $5,600.

Kids have a image of being ripfor the pickings by smamrmy adults, but, once in a while, the kids (and their parents) are smarmier than the adults who want to deal with them.

Dave Miedema

[mad87man]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

When i was growing up (not too long ago i am 23 now) i always worked as a teenager/older kid. When i was about 12 i believe i would cut my 2 neighbors lawns for around 25$ each a month. It was big money for me at the time but i used to get to spend some of it and i wish i knew about things like this. not on this grand a level as a whole jersey or such expensive things but i always loved hobbies.

About the kid selling the ball to the guy? I find that to be a little weird myself. I mean maybe the kids was intimidated by the older man. I think if i was in the kids shoes and was young young i prob. would of yelled and ran away lol.

[mdb240]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

I'm new to the board but I would like to chime in on this. This past baseball season I went to a minor league baseball game with my family. On my way to the concession stands a foul ball ended up landing near me while I was drinking out of the water fountain. A Group of kids ended up with the ball, probably around 14 Years old or so. My older brother just bought a new baseball glove that day and brought it to the game. He never caught a foul baseball and thought he would like something for his new glove. I offered the girl who caught it $10 which was what I had in my pocket. She was hesitant at first because she wanted more money which is what it was for her. I said take it or leave it, I'm just trying to do something nice for my brother. She agreed as well as the group of friends. I got back to the seats and the the ball to my brother. I had no problems with this deal since she was there for the social aspect of the game. Btw, I was 28 and my brother was 32. He loved the ball because I thought enough to get it for him.

[coxfan]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

This topic brought a lot of really good and diverse opinions. The big issue concerns the rarity and/or uniqueness of the item, and whether a kid is competent to judge its current and potential future value. I think most of us would want parental consent before buying a rare or unique item from a kid; as is the case with a HR ball from a team in running for a national title. That occurred here, since the gamecocks won the College World Series later that season. You can't always put a price-tag on a memory, and on an artifact from that memory.

But the minor's age is also relevant; there's a big difference between 10 and 17. And yes, kids sometimes exploit adults. I've seen kids beg for balls, while hiding the two they already have that they'd
already begged from others!

And it's true that some adults never had a chance to get g-u stuff as kids. I grew up in a small town that was 500 miles from the nearest MLB city. My first g-u item was a minor-league foul when I was in my 30's. I got that only because it rolled under my car, out of sight of kids.

For that reason, I plan to teach my grandsons not to beg for balls from adults; just be patient and get their own the usual way. And don't sell them!

[Copa]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

This situation happened to me just a couple of weeks ago.

I was at an NAHL (junior) hockey game and had a puck come flying over the boards into my section...there was a group of three kids, probably between 10-12 years old, that ended up running over to pick it up...as they were walking back to their seats, I held up my hand, signaling that I would pay $5 for the puck...he ran right over and gladly made the exchange...a couple of minutes later, he came back with a pizza and pop, and seemed genuinely happy he made the deal...I looked at it as the puck meant more to me than the $5, and the $5 meant more to him than the puck...I think as long as you're not trying to pull a fast one on the kid, there shouldn't be an issue with it.

[3arod13]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

Article from a 2008 Tuff Stuff Sports Collectors magazine.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

Another tale of a not-so-innocent kid.

Four or five adults, plus myself, plus 2 kids, a girl about 11 and a boy about 9, were present at the Wrigley Field visitors' entrance in 1984, when Dave Parker emerged from a cab. The Cobra was notorious as a "kids only" signer, so the adults (including me) approached with ione or two items, while the kids, no dummies, were bold: the boy had 6 cards and the girl had 8. Parker knelt on the ground and patiently signed every card both kids presented him, all the while lecturing the gathered adults about how it was so terrible for greedy adults like us to make money off the players, ad nauseum.

Parker finished signing for the kids, and went inside he park. The moment he was out of sight, the boy turned to me and said "Here...20 bucks and you can have all these".

So much for youthful innocence.

Dave Miedema

[gingi79]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

No such thing as an innocent child today. I worked at travel camps and have been around kids for over a decade in baseball parks every summer.

They know this stuff is worth money and better yet, they all feel entitled to it for free. Parents don't teach manners anymore and frankly, they deserve less than nothing.

Fans who pay for tickets every year, buy overpriced hats and jerseys, hot dogs and beer are the ones who deserve baseballs and broken bats not self-important spoiled brats.

The phrase "It's for the kids" is no longer rational. Children need to learn they deserve nothing until they earn it. Spending 25 years at ball games and finally catching a ball? You earned it. When I was a kid, I was taught to appreciate things and that I am owed nothing. Now when I get something, it means something and I am appreciative.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

No such thing as an innocent child today. I worked at travel camps and have been around kids for over a decade in baseball parks every summer.

They know this stuff is worth money and better yet, they all feel entitled to it for free. Parents don't teach manners anymore and frankly, they deserve less than nothing.

Fans who pay for tickets every year, buy overpriced hats and jerseys, hot dogs and beer are the ones who deserve baseballs and broken bats not self-important spoiled brats.

The phrase "It's for the kids" is no longer rational. Children need to learn they deserve nothing until they earn it. Spending 25 years at ball games and finally catching a ball? You earned it. When I was a kid, I was taught to appreciate things and that I am owed nothing. Now when I get something, it means something and I am appreciative.

I also work with youth programs every summer....yes there are some kids that make you shake your head but to say there are no innocent kids who or "spoiled brats" left is just dead wrong. Many of the kids I have worked with are from broken homes and have little to nothing at home. This past weekend we got a donation of cheap rubber basketballs that the kids got to keep and their reaction would compare to an adult winning a new car. There are plenty of kids that are disrespectful but there also some good kids out there as well that make the experience of giving worthwhile.

[Chris78]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

It really comes down to the intent of what you are doing, which kinda relates to what I said when responding to this before. If you are paying $5 for a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle or the 1909 Honus Wagner then what you are doing is totally wrong and unethical -- especially with a kid. If my child just got a Ryan Howard cracked bat from the player and an adult offered $10 or $20 for it, I would be really upset with the adult.

If you are paying $10 for a foul ball that has no significant meaning or $15 for a pro stock cracked bat of a single-A player, and you can explain your reasoning on why you want the ball or bat, I probably would not have a problem with it. However, if the parent decides it is a bad deal then you would have to do the exchange back. The parent is most likely going to want to know where/how the child got the money.

I think it really comes down to the case that is involved and what the intent is of the adult. As I said before, the item may mean nothing to the kid and they might rather have the money instead. If I were the parent, I would say yes or no before the transaction takes place. I might even pay my child the money that was offered to keep the item as with the Ryan Howard example.

Chris

[Klattsy]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

No such thing as an innocent child today.

They know this stuff is worth money and better yet, they all feel entitled to it for free. Parents don't teach manners anymore and frankly, they deserve less than nothing.

Children need to learn they deserve nothing until they earn it. Spending 25 years at ball games and finally catching a ball? You earned it. When I was a kid, I was taught to appreciate things and that I am owed nothing. Now when I get something, it means something and I am appreciative.

+1 to that.

Our National baseball league started up again this year. About half way through the season kids had cottoned on to how foul balls work, and for every game over the second half of the season there would have been about 15 kids at each dugout leaning over saying "Gimmie a ball" "Throw it here" or even "Yep yep yep" expecting something for nothing.

Was I jealous that they where getting GU items, not at all, but it certainly disgusted me that none of these kids had enough manors to patiently ask for a ball or wait for it to be offered to them.

Maybe i'm just getting old and bitter.

Mark.

[shaunharr]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

No such thing as an innocent child today. I worked at travel camps and have been around kids for over a decade in baseball parks every summer.

They know this stuff is worth money and better yet, they all feel entitled to it for free. Parents don't teach manners anymore and frankly, they deserve less than nothing.

Fans who pay for tickets every year, buy overpriced hats and jerseys, hot dogs and beer are the ones who deserve baseballs and broken bats not self-important spoiled brats.

The phrase "It's for the kids" is no longer rational. Children need to learn they deserve nothing until they earn it. Spending 25 years at ball games and finally catching a ball? You earned it. When I was a kid, I was taught to appreciate things and that I am owed nothing. Now when I get something, it means something and I am appreciative.

As a 16 year old myself, I can honestly say I am not one who feels I am entitled to a player's broken bat, or even an uncracked bat. I know teenagers who ask literally every single ball player who comes out of the clubhouse if they can have a bat after the game if it's cracked, even if they do not know the player's name. I have purchased more than half of my game used bats, because I do not expect a player to give me his bat just because I ask.

Kids described by gingi are kids that I try to avoid when graphing at games.

[jppopma]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

I've seen all angles of this topic. There are bad kids, and there are also bad adults. I often sit in the front row of the bullpen for my boys to be able to see and intact with the players. It is a good life lesson for them to get turned down by players and not get balls; not get mad and also be respectful to the players when asking for a ball, autograph, or simple high five. It's amazing how rude kids and adults alike are when it comes to asking for things. I've had people push me out of the way to stand right in front of my seat, push my wife carrying a baby, or just get downright obnoxious whining to get something or anything....and yes, it's both kids and adults the same.

Count me in the group that has gone to games for 30+ years and never got myself a foul ball. When I finally did get one, the pleasure of handing it to my son far far outweighed any joy of getting it for myself.

When it comes to someone approaching kids to buy something, let me put it in the terms of a protective father and cop. If I see some stranger walk up to my son at a ballgame, he better expect to see me in his face very quickly. Maybe my opinion will change when my sons get older, but for now I don't care what your wants are or how much you are offering him.....

[coxfan]

Re: Ethics of buying from a kid

Remember that value doesn't always have a price tag. I have a housing letter from UGA in the 1960's that I misunderstood, with the result that I missed out on my preferred dorm. As A result, I lived elsewhere, and that change of location led directly to my meeting my future wife, with whom I've had 40 yerars. Thus, that letter (which I still have) has infinite value to us and our six (so far) descendants because it changed our lives, though it has no monetary value at all.

And that's a problem with kids, who usually have no sense of what artifact may be of value to them 20 years down the road as a memory, regardless of its price tag.