NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

[xpress34]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

The Coors Field effect is BS. If it helps so much how come Cargo is the ONLY Rockie have an offensive season where he will ecilpse 30/100 with a .300 BA? If you want to talk parks how about the Rangers park. Last year Guerrero looked done this year he is at close to .300 30/100. And Hamilton the guy got to Texas and lit it up after the Rays and Reds both gave up on him. Or Philly J Weryth went from a JAG to an all star. Or Ibanez's first half last year. Or the left field porch at the New Yankee Stadium 25 hrs for Damon last year! Cargo is a young player the split is probably better explained by him being more comfortable playing in friendly, familar terroitory. As far as MVP if he gets close to the TC it is robbery if he does not win it. His team will finish no worse then second with the Pads implosion not looking like it will let up and without him they would finish last. And I agree Holliday was screwed royally in 2007. Though I think Hallday not Jimenez has earned NL Cy Young.

I was just going to bring up Hamilton's splits (and I like Josh!)

Home - 21 HR, 54 RBI, .395 BA, XBH 48, OPS 1.205
Road - 10 HR, 43 RBI, .327 BA, XBH 26, OPS .894

I don't hear squat about his splits being so skewed...

As far as The CY...

Ubaldo 18 W - 6 L, 2.79 ERA, 178 K, .750 WP

Halladay 17 W - 10 L, 2.36 ERA, 196 K, .630 WP

Wainwright 17 W - 10 L, 2.34 ERA, 184 K, .630 WP

Before the AS break, all I heard about was ERA being most important. If that is true, then Wainwright takes the CY at this point.

But if you look at all the stats, Ubaldo has given up the least Hits and the least HRs and has the lowest BA against.

Like the MVP, it will depend on how all three finish out their last 3 starts.

At this point with one owning the lead in each of the pitching Triple Crown categories, it is too close to call.

[xpress34]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

As of close of business Wednesday:

Gargo

BA - .340
HR - 32
RBI - 100

Votto

BA - .326
HR - 32
RBI - 99

Pujols

BA - .311
HR - 36
RBI - 98

Infante

BA - .342
HR - 7
RBI - 40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now Cargo is within 4 HRs of Pujols and 1 RBI ahead of Votto AND, his Avg is now .002 below Infante. (I will HIGHLIGHT Infante's number when he hits the PAs)

This justs gets more exciting by the day!!! Another 'race' to follow besides the pennant race!

All the best -

Chris

[AWA85]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Wasn't trying to offend you or bring down anything on Cargo, matter of fact it was actually copy and pasted from another site.

As the triple crown slips away, think I am just trying to find more ways for Votto to reach the MVP award . Not trying to stir anything up, sorry about that!


By the way you are getting the last laugh with how the Rockies are pounding the Reds right now.

[skier14]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

As the Triple Crown slips away from whom?

I am not saying tat I think anybody will win it, because I don't. However I don't think the Triple Crown is slipping away from Carlos or Votto (Votto maybe because of average).

Just my opinion.

[jbsportstuff]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Wasn't trying to offend you or bring down anything on Cargo, matter of fact it was actually copy and pasted from another site.

As the triple crown slips away, think I am just trying to find more ways for Votto to reach the MVP award . Not trying to stir anything up, sorry about that!


By the way you are getting the last laugh with how the Rockies are pounding the Reds right now.

Adam - You sure got blasted after bringing up a valid point. You've taken the high road on a couple of posts. Cudos to you.

[Beardownaz30]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

If Gonzalez can get the Rockies into the playoffs that would be quite an accomplishment. If they make it I think he wins the MVP easy. He has been on a tear last couple weeks. If they don't make it I think award is clearly Votto's.

[AndersonAuthentics]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Has to be Carlos Gonzalez. I was high on Votto for the majority of the year, but Gonzalez has stepped it up recently.

[rj_lucas]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

The Coors Field effect is BS. If it helps so much how come Cargo is the ONLY Rockie have an offensive season where he will ecilpse 30/100 with a .300 BA?

Deny the altitude effect if you wish, it doesn't change the physics:

http://www.pdas.com/bb1.htm

The answer to your question is contained in the article. Not every batter will benefit from lower resistance, and some will benefit more than others. It's a function of the ball's initial velocity i.e. the speed at which it comes off the bat. The faster it travels when hit, the greater the benefit gained from lower resistence. In fact, the author quantifies the benefit as 9% greater distance for an average hitter. A stronger hitter with an inside-out stroke (think Carlos Gonzalez) will reap a bigger benefit.

None of this suggests that Carlos Gonzalez (for example) is not a skilled player. Quite the opposite, since the 'better' the hitter, the greater the benefit from playing at high altitude. But the effect is real.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[skier14]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Deny the altitude effect if you wish, it doesn't change the physics:

http://www.pdas.com/bb1.htm

The answer to your question is contained in the article. Not every batter will benefit from lower resistance, and some will benefit more than others. It's a function of the ball's initial velocity i.e. the speed at which it comes off the bat. The faster it travels when hit, the greater the benefit gained from lower resistence. In fact, the author quantifies the benefit as 9% greater distance for an average hitter. A stronger hitter with an inside-out stroke (think Carlos Gonzalez) will reap a bigger benefit.

None of this suggests that Carlos Gonzalez (for example) is not a skilled player. Quite the opposite, since the 'better' the hitter, the greater the benefit from playing at high altitude. But the effect is real.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

I do not at all deny that the altitude has an effect on the ball's distance traveled (believe me, I cannot drive a golfball 300 yards several times per round at sea level).

I think Carlos Gonzalez is almost the perfect ballplayer for Colorado and Coors Field. The Rockies have used both the strategy of power hitters (Blake Street Bombers) and fast outfielders to cover the ground of the large outfield; Carlos Gonzalez has both power and speed which is ideal for a Rockies outfielder.

About the MVP I agree that it could go either way between Votto and Gonzalez, but if CarGo plays nearly as well as he has last couple weeks I think he will win it.

[Instanton]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Deny the altitude effect if you wish, it doesn't change the physics:

http://www.pdas.com/bb1.htm

The answer to your question is contained in the article. Not every batter will benefit from lower resistance, and some will benefit more than others. It's a function of the ball's initial velocity i.e. the speed at which it comes off the bat. The faster it travels when hit, the greater the benefit gained from lower resistence. In fact, the author quantifies the benefit as 9% greater distance for an average hitter. A stronger hitter with an inside-out stroke (think Carlos Gonzalez) will reap a bigger benefit.

None of this suggests that Carlos Gonzalez (for example) is not a skilled player. Quite the opposite, since the 'better' the hitter, the greater the benefit from playing at high altitude. But the effect is real.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

Rick,
Do you attest that a 6-9 percent increase is a significant factor, in associating it with CarGo's success? I.e, to include it with major factors, such as his talent, etc...?
The Coors Field effect is BS, simply because it is composed of two main attributes: dry air - employing greater elasticity to the ball, and the thin air - allowing the ball to travel further, relative to initial velocity.
The humidor was set in place to negate the main-tier effect - the dry air effect. It was concluded that this was the main reason Coors launched so many bombs; where the thin air was second to this dilemma. Because only one variable out of the "Coors Field effect" has been constant (thin air) - on par with the decline in HRs since the introduction of the humidor - it's fair to deduce that the post-humidor air is not as significant as made out to be. Though, it will always be a hitters' park - this in combination with its spacious outfield.
Again, the Coors Field effect is fallacious because both variables are currently not employed. The term "A Coors Field product" implies the Coors Field effect, because of the stadium's past. This confusion is what gets Rox fans riled.
Logically speaking, I will not label Carlos Gonzalez as a product of Coors Field, after only one year. Let him falter on the road for two or so more years, then we will talk. While you did not say this: labeling CarGo as a product of Coors devalues his talent, as it gives him intrinsic mediocrity. I'm afraid I can not even label him as such, for just this year - see the Rockies team splits for '10.


Cheers,
Joe

[legaleagle92481]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Deny the altitude effect if you wish, it doesn't change the physics:

http://www.pdas.com/bb1.htm

The answer to your question is contained in the article. Not every batter will benefit from lower resistance, and some will benefit more than others. It's a function of the ball's initial velocity i.e. the speed at which it comes off the bat. The faster it travels when hit, the greater the benefit gained from lower resistence. In fact, the author quantifies the benefit as 9% greater distance for an average hitter. A stronger hitter with an inside-out stroke (think Carlos Gonzalez) will reap a bigger benefit.

None of this suggests that Carlos Gonzalez (for example) is not a skilled player. Quite the opposite, since the 'better' the hitter, the greater the benefit from playing at high altitude. But the effect is real.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

As fascinating as that is, the rest of the team seems to have reaped no benefit at all. Check the stats. Only two guys, including Cargo are hitting over .300. The next highest homer total after Cargo is 18! And the next highest RBI total is 69! In fact its September and only two guys have over 100 hits including Cargo.

[xpress34]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

The Coors Field effect is BS, simply because it is composed of two main attributes: dry air - employing greater elasticity to the ball, and the thin air - allowing the ball to travel further, relative to initial velocity.

Joe -

I just wanted to correct one thing here - the BOLDED statement above.

The dry air actually REMOVES the elasticity of the ball (i.e. it dries out) making it like hitting a golfball so it increases the distance.

The humidor is exactly what it implies - it adds humidity to the air to keep the 'water weight' of the baseballs consistent to what they are out of the factory and how they are at game time at other parks. Just like a regular humidor keeps cigars from drying out, it keeps the leather from drying and tightening on the ball.

While I was working for Rawlings we got asked a lot about the humidor and if parks in humid areas needed a drier to help the balls go further.

The answer is NO. It is much easier for a dry arid desert climate to dry a ball out than it is for a damp humid climate to 'soak' the ball. It has to do with the permeability of leather just like your skin.

Your skin sweats out water with no problem, but when you go swimming or take a shower, the water runs off of you - your skin doesn't absorb it.

Just wanted to clear up that point.

- Chris

[Instanton]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Joe -

I just wanted to correct one thing here - the BOLDED statement above.

The dry air actually REMOVES the elasticity of the ball (i.e. it dries out) making it like hitting a golfball so it increases the distance.

The humidor is exactly what it implies - it adds humidity to the air to keep the 'water weight' of the baseballs consistent to what they are out of the factory and how they are at game time at other parks. Just like a regular humidor keeps cigars from drying out, it keeps the leather from drying and tightening on the ball.

While I was working for Rawlings we got asked a lot about the humidor and if parks in humid areas needed a drier to help the balls go further.

The answer is NO. It is much easier for a dry arid desert climate to dry a ball out than it is for a damp humid climate to 'soak' the ball. It has to do with the permeability of leather just like your skin.

Your skin sweats out water with no problem, but when you go swimming or take a shower, the water runs off of you - your skin doesn't absorb it.

Just wanted to clear up that point.

- Chris

Chris,

I see - I read that tidbit on an old '07 article. It was a bit general, but here it is:

'That effect, however, is offset by the humidified ball being "less bouncy and probably for the same swing comes off the bat with a little less speed," he said.'


I took "less bouncy" as having lesser elasticity, therefore greater firmness than a dry ball; where the elasticity of a dry ball assisted in more transfer in energy, for a great initial velocity?


Joe

[jbsportstuff]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

As fascinating as that is, the rest of the team seems to have reaped no benefit at all. Check the stats. Only two guys, including Cargo are hitting over .300. The next highest homer total after Cargo is 18! And the next highest RBI total is 69! In fact its September and only two guys have over 100 hits including Cargo.

You can do no doubt argue the the BA...but if you look at the amount of At bats that the other players have compared to Cargo, that is a big reason why there aren't more homers or RBI's.

RkPosAgeGPAABRH2B3BHRRBISBCSBBSOBAOBPSLGOPSOPS+TBG DPHBPSHSFIBB1CMiguel Olivo3196380350509815513527424102.280.325.463.788101162 4123321BTodd Helton*36994033454085151628005377.246.345.348.6938012091 04232BClint Barmes311224203754188200850323564.235.306.352.6587013255 23104SSTroy Tulowitzki251014363857012428218691024165.322.389.545.9341392 1014415253BIan Stewart*25115423371539814218605242104.264.343.458.8011051 70750586LFSeth Smith*2711735532253831741750212860.258.318.494.81210615 9520307CFDexter Fowler#24110422361629119124331275386.252.351.404.7559514 6426008RFBrad Hawpe*31883002592466212737213668.255.343.432.7761001124 1044RkPosAgeGPAABRH2B3BHRRBISBCSBBSOBAOBPSLGOPSOPS +TBGDPHBPSHSFIBB9OFCarlos Gonzalez*24126554513951733083210023832118.337.374.614.9881 503157207610OFRyan Spilborghs3011332528735791821029353172.275.356.456.812109131 65200113BMelvin Mora38952892552869104430212836.271.354.388.74292997510 2122BJonathan Herrera#2560203177255032119121929.282.348.339.68779602052

[jbsportstuff]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Ok...that did NOT paste like I wanted it to. Here is a link to check out what I was talking about. Cargo is having an awesome year...but he has well over 100+ plus more plate appearences and AB's compared to the next Co Ro.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2010.shtml