Barry Larkin 1995 Road Jersey

[joelsabi]

Members,

As many of you are aware there was a thread concerning a 1995 Barry Larkin jersey that was deleted last Saturday. The thread was deleted because it was started by a banned member, which is against forum rules.

Following the emergence of the thread, the original seller of the jersey immediately took the jersey back and refunded the buyer in full.

The information contained in this thread however provided educational value for Reds collectors, jersey collectors, and Larkin collectors alike. Not all Game Used Universe members had the opportunity to view this information, analyze it or even argue it. So, after discussion amongst the admin staff, we have agreed to re-initialize this thread and will continue to facilitate the information sharing on this topic.

The jersey in question is a Barry Larkin Cincinnati Reds Road jersey from 1995, his MVP year.

Here are the six observations that were given about the jersey:

1) The “11” on the front isn’t properly placed on the jersey. In the Getty photos, the second “1” should appear to be under that second “C”. In the jersey in question the same digit is well to the left of it, under that first “N”.

2) The first “1” of that front “11” ideally should appear between the first “I” and “N” in CINCINNATI on the front of the jersey. It shouldn’t make contact, vertically speaking, with the first “C” if you were to follow a perfectly placed vertical pinstripe connecting the two.

3) Regarding the last two letters on the front (the second “T” and the finishing “I”)…in every photo I have seen of him from the ’95 season, the vertical bars of those finely made professional jerseys appear to be parallel to each other as they sit side by side.


4) The “A” in Cincinnati is symmetrical in the Getty photos, and on the jersey in question it is angled on the right side, which doesn't appear to be authentic. It is a different style of font completely.


5) On the back of the jersey, “1” of the 11 is pretty much directly under the “A” in the Getty photo. The jersey starts well outside that “1”.

6) On the back of the jersey: The “K” above the second “1” seems to start inside before the second “1” (between the 11), vertically speaking. On the Getty photo showing the back of his jersey, the second “1” starts before the “K”.

[zillla]

I see the picture at the bottom of Ripken with Larkin that sent chills up my spine.

1995 was a big year for Cal Ripken. Several years ago I purchased a game used 1995 Ripken jersey just like the one in the picture that I sent in for authentication and came back as not a game jersey. I was told it was a salesman sample that Russell made lots of and the jersey was altered. As I am looking at this Larkin and reading the possible issues, could this be a salesman sample as this is a Russell like my Ripken and also from 1995.

[AWA85]

Want to take the time to thank everyone involved in helping with this Barry Larkin jersey. I consider myself a very experienced and knowledgeable Cincinnati Reds collector, but this was one experience that caught me completely off guard.

One of the most important aspects of this Larkin situation really centers about cleaning up the hobby. With high dollar items and large amounts of time and attachment invested in our items, there really isn't the need to worry about feelings or friends. When I first read the initial thread calling out my most cherished item, I did not think about the tone or the jokes within the thread but the matter of my prized possession being questioned. This site has provided the help and knowledge and needs to continue to help clean up the hobby.

As many of you have commented or emailed me to ask about the situation, Rob has been extremely professional and refunded my the jersey in whole. He was helpful and was willing to come up with a resolution instantly. I commend him and Authentic Gamers for all of the effort he put in on the Larkin jersey.

The one question I have as I continue to learn about the hobby, is where items like this come from? Not only the item, but the team letters and all the bells and whistles that come with it.

Thank you to Rob, those that have posted on the board, the author of the thread that initially caught my most cherished item, and GUU for providing the resources and leaving them up for all to learn from.

Thank you,
GO REDS!!!

[jgoldstein2000]

I have the same question... where does all the fake merchandise come from. Is it really that profitable to create fake jerseys AND documentation? What motivates people to pollute this wonderful game and its memories with BS?

[Dewey2007]

I have the same question... where does all the fake merchandise come from. Is it really that profitable to create fake jerseys AND documentation? What motivates people to pollute this wonderful game and its memories with BS?

Not sure where it all comes from but it can be profitable when sold to unknowing buyers. Luckily this forum has helped to educate collectors but it still happens. I'm sure we all have run into this problem at one time or another. I know I have but luckily I was able to get my money back each time and I am glad that it all worked out in the end for AWA85 too.

What motivates people to do this: money, greed, nothing better to do with their lives and it will continue as long as someone can make a buck.

[zillla]

AWA85, dont ever buy gamer Reds jerseys without checking with Diamond Sports near Cincinatti. Mark Fugate owns it and can tell you that there were many Reds road blanks from 1995 that mysteriously became "game used" Larkin jerseys from his MVP season. I am not saying this is one except if you are looking to tie the one you had I think Mark Fugate can help.

What I am trying to do is tie these together with the Ripkens from the same year of 1995. Here's another on eBay with questionable script and tagging that looks right. I was thinking salesman samples but since this script is wrong I am thinking this came from a blank also.
Cal Ripken Jr. 1995 Game Used Autographed Jersey - eBay (item 330464934021 end time Sep-24-10 09:03:51 PDT)

If anyone knows Orioles expert Mark Sutton, maybe he can tie these together. They are all Russell jerseys so again not sure if this is a coincedence.

Are there any Russell jersey experts out there or anyone who can shed some light on Russell salesman samples and jersey blanks.

[TNTtoys]

AWA85, dont ever buy gamer Reds jerseys without checking with Diamond Sports near Cincinatti. Mark Fugate owns it and can tell you that there were many Reds road blanks from 1995 that mysteriously became "game used" Larkin jerseys from his MVP season. I am not saying this is one except if you are looking to tie the one you had I think Mark Fugate can help.

What I am trying to do is tie these together with the Ripkens from the same year of 1995. Here's another on eBay with questionable script and tagging that looks right. I was thinking salesman samples but since this script is wrong I am thinking this came from a blank also.
Cal Ripken Jr. 1995 Game Used Autographed Jersey - eBay (item 330464934021 end time Sep-24-10 09:03:51 PDT)

If anyone knows Orioles expert Mark Sutton, maybe he can tie these together. They are all Russell jerseys so again not sure if this is a coincedence.

Are there any Russell jersey experts out there or anyone who can shed some light on Russell salesman samples and jersey blanks.

I am not so sure about the jersey being a 'salesman sample' -- usually these jerseys are the prototype jersey for the team to either select a new manufacturer to supply their jerseys or a new jersey style from the same manufacturer. That said, the salesman samples are normally pre-made as the star of that day (all evidence here points to it being lettered after-market).

My theory is that the jersey was a factory line error jersey, as the incorrect "A" was placed on the front of the jersey. The jersey then was thrown in a discard pile and eventually made it into the hobby somehow as a retail jersey. I have seen this done time and time again in recent years with Majestic (for example, they were selling all of their 'imperfect' 0062-tagged jerseys at their retail outlet). A factory line error jersey possibly could have been picked up cheaply, lettered cheaply as well, and then passed into the hobby and eventually made its way into the charity, where it then was unknowingly documented as real.

Again, just my theory.

[SaintsGeaux]

I am not so sure about the jersey being a 'salesman sample' -- usually these jerseys are the prototype jersey for the team to either select a new manufacturer to supply their jerseys or a new jersey style from the same manufacturer. That said, the salesman samples are normally pre-made as the star of that day (all evidence here points to it being lettered after-market).

My theory is that the jersey was a factory line error jersey, as the incorrect "A" was placed on the front of the jersey. The jersey then was thrown in a discard pile and eventually made it into the hobby somehow as a retail jersey. I have seen this done time and time again in recent years with Majestic (for example, they were selling all of their 'imperfect' 0062-tagged jerseys at their retail outlet). A factory line error jersey possibly could have been picked up cheaply, lettered cheaply as well, and then passed into the hobby and eventually made its way into the charity, where it then was unknowingly documented as real.

Again, just my theory.

MEARs did a report a year ago on Larkin road jerseys from 1995. They compared 4 of them. These jerseys are everywhere. This particular jersey was in the comparison. Can you imagine that!

TNT could be correct that this is a irregular or I think the jersey blank makes sense also as there are so many issues with it. Do not think it is a salesman sample because it is a size 46.

The Ripkens are everywhere. Probably a combo of blanks and salesman samples as they are 48's.

[jbsportstuff]

Well since Mark Fugate has been brought up, I will let you know what he told me about the 1995 Red's jerseys. As many of you know, Reds sell several of their jerseys during Redsfest. In 1995, the Reds sold a TON of blank home game issued jerseys at Redsfest...tons of them. They had the proper tagging..but no name or numbers on the jerseys.

At that time Mark thought that this would come back to bite the hobby and that is exactly what has happened in this case. Mark warned me a couple of years ago to never buy a 1995 larkin jersey because it would difficult to know that it's real. I've had multiple transactions with Mark and he is one of the very best in the hobby.

Mark has phenomenal knowledge of Reds jerseys of all ages. Not to make a plug...but he has just opened up a new shop and he changed the name. Here is a link to his new store...he has several game used jerseys on display...something his old store didn't have the room to properly show.

His new shop is called Sports Gallery.


http://www.asportsgallery.com/

[allstarsplus]

Well since Mark Fugate has been brought up, I will let you know what he told me about the 1995 Red's jerseys. As many of you know, Reds sell several of their jerseys during Redsfest. In 1995, the Reds sold a TON of blank home game issued jerseys at Redsfest...tons of them. They had the proper tagging..but no name or numbers on the jerseys.

His new shop is called Sports Gallery.


http://www.asportsgallery.com/

You state in 1995 the Reds sold a TON of blank home game iissued jerseys. The jersey pictured here is a ROAD jersey.

What does Mark Fugate say about ROAD 1995 jerseys.