Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

[Eric]

Hello everyone-

I have received emails about an issue with a 2004 game used and autographed black Hines Ward jersey listed in Vintage Authentics current auction.

An observant forum member emailed me to ask if I would take a look at this item, which had been authenticated a5 by mears and had a letter from lou lampson grading it a 4.

Here is the photo:



If you look carefully, the stitching is over parts of the autograph, suggesting the numeral had been added to this jersey after the number was autographed. Apparently this is done with the game cuts sold on NFL Auctions.

The forum reader contacted mears about how a game cut jersey could get the a5 grade.

They responded on their website mearsonline.com, defending the a5 grade with this explanation.
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2004 Hines Ward Pittsburgh Steelers Home Jersey Current Vintage Authentics auction, A5
August 2 2006 at 11:27 PM Troy R. Kinunen (Login TroyKinunen)
A question was asked regarding Lot #245, the Hines Ward 2004 Steelers jersey offered in the current Vintage Authentics auction. It was brought to our attention that the number on the Ward jersey was autographed and then applied to the jersey. Upon re-inspection, we concur with that opinion. You can see the stitching is applied over parts of the autograph, meaning the number was signed then applied to the jersey.


Lot 245: Hines Ward 2004 Game Used & Autographed Jersey GU 4, GU grade per Lou Lampson


Vintage Authentics Catalog Description: Black home Pittsburgh Steelers Reebok jersey used by Pro Bowl wide receiver Hines Ward during his 2004 season and autographed by Ward on the back numeral in black sharpie. The jersey is appropriately strip-tagged in collar with "04-48" year-size ID and the outer tail houses the Reebok label with size 48 flag with untagged extra length added to the tail. All aspects are original and consistent. It earns a final grade of 4.

The Lou Lampson letter of authenticity is titled as “Hines Ward 2004 Game Used & Autographed Jersey GU 4”, and per the provided worksheet, 0 points was assigned for use. This information is gathered from the Vintage Authentics website.

The MEARS letters reads,

2004 Hines Ward Pittsburgh Steelers Home Jersey, Final Grade with respect to characteristics and game use: A5

Definition of A5: A5 Manufactures characteristics of the jersey have been compared to known authentic examples and match all criteria. Each piece is also evaluated on the degree of evident use and wear, which must be consistent with that of the player, sport, position, field of play, and duration of use. The degree of wear will be measured from minimal to heavy and the jersey cannot exhibit negative, missing, or incorrect manufacturers traits or use characteristics. When team or player provenance is lacking, wear can be measured, but not attributed directly to examined player. Without reasonable and verifiable provenance for post-1987 Hall of Fame or period star player jersey's, the A5 designation may still be assigned if the jersey possesses all the qualities and physical characteristics of a Major League jersey that was manufactured for player use or as an extra for a team or player, or one that may have been made available for retail sale or promotion. For jersey's assigned the A5 grade, use and wear will be described, but not verified.

The jersey still matches our definition of an A5, but we have included language stating the jersey was originally offered via NFL auctions.

The comment section reads, “… the autograph on the 8 was signed by Ward then applied to the jersey. This can be seen via the thread sewn over the jersey numeral. This was a common practice of jerseys offered via NFL auctions.
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That's an important thing for hobbyists to understand. This has come up before, but here we have a perfect example. It appears someone bought a game issued/game cut jersey from NFL Auctions, submitted it to the auction house and it got the A5 grade. Understand what you're buying when you're doing your research.

I sent an email to Steve Jensen at Vintage Authentics, who always is receptive to questions and comments. I pointed out that since the thread was over the autograph, the number was applied later. Either this was a real game used jersey that had been doctored, or it was a game cut NFL Auctions jersey in which case the listing title of "Game Used" did not apply.

Since there were issues here, Steve pulled the jersey from the auction.

There is a lot to learn here.
1) Do your own homework, as the forum reader did. Do not rely solely on the authenticators
2) Ask questions. Mears gave an explanation of what A5 means. It might not be the definition people perceive. Also, Steve Jensen was willing to look into the situation from his end and ultimately did a good thing by pulling it.
3) Know the meaning of the terms. There is a wide range covering the A5 grade, which include this item- one which never even saw a locker room.

As an aside, people could buy game cuts and submit them to auction houses which use mears, get the a5 grade (which is also given to game used modern items) and cash in on an unknowing public. In my opinion, game cut jerseys should never have the same grade as ones which are used in games but that's a whole other discussion.

Thanks for reading this long email and I'd be interested in people's responses.
Eric

[CollectGU]

MEARS can never admit they were wrong and are ALWAYS full of double talk.....

[skipcareyisfat]

Kudos to the person that spotted that. Rudy wrote a nice post the other day that folks should read if they get a chance. I rarely read long posts like that, but it was a good one. The issues with the Ward jersey mirror the complaints brought up in that post and in a lot of others before it. How Lampson still gets work is baffling. His sales pitch must be amazing.

[trsent]

What did MEARS do wrong?

They graded the jersey as an A5 grade.

Their letter makes it clear, the jersey could be game used or game cut, in this case it appears to have be a game ready jersey. I know, everyone wants to believe that game issued, team issued, game ready, etc. means the jersey hung in the locker room but was never worn, but I do not believe a "game" jersey has to have hit the locker room.

They state the jersey is the same style worn on the field, they do not stand behind any promises of game use for this jersey.

Then again, what does the Lou Lampson A4 stand for in this situation? Does his letter promise game use?

[hblakewolf]

Joel-
I have to agree with Dave Collect GU on this one (hard to believe!).

MEARS is really doing the Chicken Dance on this one. Is it common for MEARS to write LOA's on jerseys that were never intended to be worn in a game? Would these jerseys be called replicas? Knock-offs? Copies? # applied almost game ready replica jerseys? What the hell do you call a jersey that has had the autographed number re-applied?

In regards to your question about the Lampson letter, does it really matter what he writes or the actual grade he assigns to this or any jersey he writes "an opinion" LOA? In this case, does an A4 really make it any better than an A3 or an A1? Based on his past LOA's, I consider all of Lampson's LOA's "ACompletely Worthless piece of paper"

I think Rudy's recent thread about Lampson summed up the feeling by those with a day's experience in the uniform collecting world-WORTHLESS!

Joel, you can try to defend the authenticators once again, however, the shirt in question was incorrectly authenticated and now the back peddlin' has started, or in this case, the Chicken Dance.

QUACK, QUACK, QUACK

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

What did MEARS do wrong?

They graded the jersey as an A5 grade.

Their letter makes it clear, the jersey could be game used or game cut, in this case it appears to have be a game ready jersey. I know, everyone wants to believe that game issued, team issued, game ready, etc. means the jersey hung in the locker room but was never worn, but I do not believe a "game" jersey has to have hit the locker room.

They state the jersey is the same style worn on the field, they do not stand behind any promises of game use for this jersey.

Then again, what does the Lou Lampson A4 stand for in this situation? Does his letter promise game use?

[Eric]

Call it what you want, but I think MEARS' statement is important because they're on the record saying that non game used jerseys can get an A5, which is also given to game used jerseys.

As a consumer and for the sellers, that's an important thing to understand.

In my opinion, the a5 grade is sort of a non-commital one- could be game used, could be issued, which means auction houses should be careful not to describe A5s as game used unless there's specific evidence. That seems to eliminate a lot of modern items.

Eric

[trsent]

Eric, correct. While Howard cannot discuss a topic without cutting corners and having Coco Puffs on his mind (in other words, comments that do not defend his situation, just puts down the other party), the fact is simple - MEARS doesn't ever state the jersey in question is game used.

My question was did the Lou Lampson letter state the item was game used? I do not believe the MEARS letter ever stated game used, which everyone assumes A5 states, but it doesn't.

The seller of the item is still responsible to advertise the item as game used or game ready.

[hblakewolf]

Eric/Joel-

The issue here relates to semantics-end of story. People are depending on MEARS or an authenticator for their expertise. Is the item in question "GAME WORN" or "GAME ISSUED". Eric, you note that the A5 is "non-commital"-then I ask-what's the point of the LOA in the first place? What exactly does this or any A5 LOA prove or better yet, allow us to learn about the shirt in question?

I'm still miffed about this football jersey-what is it? Based on your post, why even have MEARS provide a LOA?

As I always note, do your own homework and wipe your rear with this particular LOA and all the rest of them.

What a complete joke............

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Call it what you want, but I think MEARS' statement is important because they're on the record saying that non game used jerseys can get an A5, which is also given to game used jerseys.

As a consumer and for the sellers, that's an important thing to understand.

In my opinion, the a5 grade is sort of a non-commital one- could be game used, could be issued, which means auction houses should be careful not to describe A5s as game used unless there's specific evidence. That seems to eliminate a lot of modern items.

Eric

[both-teams-played-hard]

In my opinion, the a5 grade is sort of a non-commital one- could be game used, could be issued, which means auction houses should be careful not to describe A5s as game used unless there's specific evidence. That seems to eliminate a lot of modern items.

Letter of Authenticity, Letter of Opinion, Certificate of Authenticity, Certificate of Opinion, Game Used, Game Worn, Team Issued, Game Issued, Game Ready, Photo-shoot worn, Impeccable letter of Provenance, All the correct tags, or the ever popular "typical Quarterback use", A4, A3, A5.
Am I forgeting something?

[trsent]

Howard, with all my love...

...The A5 letter is provided to state the jersey is a game used or game ready jersey. The next seller has to make that clarification. If this modern jersey had a better background, then it could receive a higher grade, but it was presented to MEARS just as a jersey with no background history.

What is the point?

When you open your own auction house you'll see how important your LOAs are to your final bid prices.