MEARS Mumbo-Jumbo?

[aeneas01]

I don't think the difficulty is finding a photo of Jazz players in the their opening season warmups. It's finding them wearing this particular style. Did the Jazz have both home and road warmups during their first season?

here's the thing - mears states in the lot description that they examined a maravich warm-up jacket from the same season as the ebay jacket, but it was a different style and did not match the ebay jacket.

because the jackets didn't match, mears is trying to claim that the jazz actually wore two different warm-up jacket styles during the season in question: the one they examined (which is presumably authentic) and the ebay jacket.

to that end mears is claiming that the jacket they examined is from the second half of the 1974/75 season while the ebay jacket is from the first half of the 1974/75 season. further complicating matters, mears insists on referring to the jacket they examined as a "1975 jacket" and the ebay jacket as a "1974 jacket". if you ask me, mears does this for a very specific reason. anyway, here's what mears wrote in the lot description:

"MEARS has examined an additional 1975 Pete Maravich warmup jacket (worn during second half of 1974-75 season), it was also a size 44."

so mears knows what type of warm-up jackets the jazz wore during their inaugural 1974/75 season - the only problem is it doesn't match their ebay jacket. so what to do? how about trying to float the notion that the jazz wore TWO different warm-up styles that year?

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[otismalibu]

Yeah, that's Baylor. To Pistol's left is Butch van Breda Kolff.

Who is that between Pistol & Baylor? Scotty Robertson?

[soxbats]

So as not to be misunderstood, I will announce my underlying lack of agenda. I am not saying the jacket is real or not real. I am not saying that the Jazz wore one, two, five or ten different warm ups, or that the premise of multiple warm up styles in one season is even plausible. I am not saying that I would buy the jacket given the description.

ALL, I repeat ALL, I am saying is that the MEARS description suggests that the jacket could be authentic because they could not find a definitve non-match from early in the 74 season. Again, the description says "Imagery analysis: At this time, MEARS was not able to find a photo of Maravich wearing this exact jacket. Additionally, we could find NO image of an early 1974 Jazz jacket worn by ANY player." It then continues, concluding "So with the Sand Knit tag dating ending in 1974 and no early 1974 images found of any Jazz player wearing a warm-up jacket, we are confident in our 1974 dating."

It does not "need" to be an early 74 jacket, but I interpret these statements to mean (or at least designed to suggest) that MEARS believes the absence of a picture of a Jazz warm up from early 74 leaves open the possibility that the warm up to be sold is authentic. (by the way, when reading this again I wonder if there was a "late" 74 picture found that did not match, the use of the word "early" twice is curious) That is a statement/conclusion by MEARS that with research might be proven incorrect. For a jacket of this value, MEARS could have done additional research in the manner I described earlier at relatively low cost.

Of course, if it can be demonstrated conclusively that the Jazz used only one style of warm up in 1974, then that would also address and resolve the same point. I am not aware of anyone demonstrating this, other than the logical conclusion that such an occurrence is unlikely.

[soxbats]

Robert, I posted before reading your post.

[otismalibu]

The reason I asked if that was coach Scotty Robertson in the photo, is because this site says he was only coach for 15 games.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/New_Orleans_Jazz

[bronx_burner]

Found this photo on AP Images. Dated 10/18/74. Making it the 2nd game of the season, so that would qualify as early in the season I believe. The fellow in the background on the left appears to be wearing a warmup jacket. Doesn't remotely resemble the jacket in question. For what its worth...

[trsent]

I am a bit confused. MEARS states they cannot match the item, they are very clear about this in their description. They also state they believe the item to be authentic, but they cannot match the style. They are entitled to their opinion, right?

What did MEARS do? They claim they cannot match the item, state they believe it to be authentic, so any bidders have their side of the story.

Did I miss something? I have no clue how this item went from an eBay sale to a neutral feedback into the possession of MEARS, but no matter what the jacket is, the seller broke a contract and whoever was the high bidder (bkbnts) who the seller now claims the item is not real so they can weasel out of their eBay contractual sale, should sue the seller based on the hammer price MEARS receives. I'm pretty sure the buyer would have to travel to Ohio, but screw it, they entered a contract and the item is a few weeks later for sale in another auction house? Sounds like fun to me.

eBay should also investigate to see if sales were made through the eBay messaging system. The seller opened the bidding at like $150.00 with a $199.99 reserve. I'd assume even if this jacket was not authentic, for two hundred dollars it is a really, really cool jacket. The seller used a weak excuse to back out of the sale as it is now for sale as genuine at a major auction house

[platinum1]

Found this photo on AP Images. Dated 10/18/74. Making it the 2nd game of the season, so that would qualify as early in the season I believe. The fellow in the background on the left appears to be wearing a warmup jacket. Doesn't remotely resemble the jacket in question. For what its worth...

YouTube has some videos of new Orleans jazz games. Can some one check into to it. I couldn't see that good because I only can go online on my phone.

[aeneas01]

Robert, I posted before reading your post.

and i posted while others were in the process of posting as well! all good, just means that we're all having a nice, active exchange!

regarding your new orleans times-picayune comment, i've also wondered why a company such as mears doesn't seem to invest in any of the premium quality resource services available on he net. for example, newsarchives.com is a great service which i have paid for in the past - but i don't think mears bothers with this excellent service/resource. i've also been a paid subscriber to wireimage.com for quite a while - it's not cheap ($75/month), but it's worth it to me given my interest in high quality, unwatermarked, vintage football photos. yet mears seems to be satisfied with the realtively small, watermarked, free images they can get from getty, us presswire etc... this just strikes me as odd and unprofessional given what mears does for a living. btw i agree with you - mears' to rush to auction with this thing is indeed puzzling....

So as not to be misunderstood, I will announce my underlying lack of agenda. I am not saying the jacket is real or not real. I am not saying that the Jazz wore one, two, five or ten different warm ups, or that the premise of multiple warm up styles in one season is even plausible. I am not saying that I would buy the jacket given the description. ALL, I repeat ALL, I am saying is that the MEARS description suggests that the jacket could be authentic because they could not find a definitve non-match from early in the 74 season.

frankly, i don't believe you have an agenda - but i do have to question your apparent faith in mears' "maravich" lot description. if an auction house is going to grade their own item as authentic and then declare its value to be in excess of $20,000, they better come to the table with more than just "it could be authentic because we can't find a definitive non-match" - know what i mean?

here's something interesting: mears' website contains a "code of ethics" section where mears lays down the law in terms of how they expect their members/dealers to conduct themselves when it comes to selling and buying sports memorabilia. outlined in the "code of conduct when buying" section, mears states:

"Representation: Buyers are prohibited from conveying information that would lead a seller to believe their item is not worth what they feel the market will bring. They are obligated to ensure the seller knows what they have and what the value of their item is with respect to various venues for sale."

http://www.mearsonline.com/forsale/ethics/

hmmm... yet mears, the author of these codes of ethics, buys the "maravich" jacket for $4k and then immediately declares that it's value is $20,000+. anyone else see a problem here?

here's another interesting item: not too long ago mears graded a great looking "1973/74" oscar robertson jersey a perfect a10. clearly wanting to also attribute the jersey to game use during the bucks' playoff run that year, mears claimed that the sand-knit size tagging style could only be from 1974 and therefore the jersey was most likely used in the second half of the 1973/74 season and during the playoffs.

mears, wanting to attribute this so-called "maravich" jacket to the new orleans jazz's inaugural season, has stated that the jacket's sand-knit size tagging style is consistent with 1974. therefore, the jacket is from the first half of the 1974/75 season.

so we have two sand-knit garments mears has tried to attribute to 1974, for two very specific reasons. yet these tags don't match. hmm....

http://www.mearsonline.com/forsale/i...6&view=archive

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[aeneas01]

Found this photo on AP Images. Dated 10/18/74. Making it the 2nd game of the season, so that would qualify as early in the season I believe. The fellow in the background on the left appears to be wearing a warmup jacket. Doesn't remotely resemble the jacket in question. For what its worth...

wait a minute... are you saying these two jackets don't look the same to you?




from mears' lot description:

"At this time, MEARS was not able to find a photo of Maravich wearing this exact jacket. Additionally, we could find NO image of an early 1974 Jazz jacket worn by ANY player.... So with the Sand Knit tag dating ending in 1974 and no early 1974 images found of any Jazz player wearing a warm-up jacket, we are confident in our 1974 dating."

so there you go mears - an early 1974 image of a new orleans jazz player wearing a warm-up jacket. an image from the first half of the 1974/75 season. an image you were unable to find. tell us, does this change things at all? or are you still "confident in our 1974 dating"? time to yank the thing, dontcha think?

fwiw here is the ap caption from the above photo bronx-burner posted:

"New Orleans Jazz forward Lamar Green (16) and Philadelphia 76ers center LeRoy Ellis (25) watch in vain as the ball shoots away from them in the first quarter of an NBA game in Philadelphia on Friday, Oct. 18, 1974 night. (AP Photo)"





second game of the 1974/75 season - can it get much earlier than that? nice job on the photo bronx.

I am a bit confused. MEARS states they cannot match the item, they are very clear about this in their description. They also state they believe the item to be authentic, but they cannot match the style. They are entitled to their opinion, right? What did MEARS do? They claim they cannot match the item, state they believe it to be authentic, so any bidders have their side of the story. Did I miss something?

from mears' website:

"...our contributions have grown to be more scientific in our approach to authentication resulting in the highest level of accuracy when determining a game-used item's authenticity. This precise determination is the reason why most of the historically important pieces of equipment that exist in the hobby today carry our letter of authenticity. Our accurate and complete research along with our willingness to stand behind our opinion for each and every item that we evaluate, instills a confidence among collectors that we are thrilled to be a part of. We will not only continue to evaluate and authenticate game used items with a level of responsibility and care that is unparalleled, but intend to share our knowledge with collectors by assisting them to acquire the memorabilia they seek or wish to sell. We also make the commitment to continually improve our existing practices without compromising our integrity."

i'm with you trsent, i don't see any problem whatsoever with the way mears has handled this so-called "maravich gamer" - as far as i can tell, the way mears handled the jacket is entirely consistent with their above pledge to collectors as well as entirely consistent with their posted code of ethics...

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