Red Sox Jersey Wear

[indyred]

Does anyone know the number of games they used these red alternates per season. I know this season, I recall them using them only a couple of times.....

[suave1477]

I would say its quite obvious why there would be more 2004 and 2005 schillings out on the Market. Lets start with 2004 the Red Sox won he World series in what 80 something years. So I am sure there is going to be a quite bit more docotored up jerseys entering the Market espeically of schilling in 2004 and 2005 since he played with the AKA RESD SOCK / BLOODY SOCK. So now there is becoming even more of a Market for Red Sox items so your going to find fakes leaking there way on to the Market.

Sure a 2002 Pedro Martinez has interest but what would you rather have a 2002 Martinez or a 2004 World Series season tale of the Bloody Sock Schilling Jersey. I think we all know the answer to that. Lets not also forget Martinez went to the Mets so there went some of his fan base and not to mention he has been having constant injury problems this year.

[ahuff]

Thank you all for the great input. I've loved seeing the photos and the great commentary. I too think it is odd that you see tons of Superstar red alternates (or any style jersey for that matter), but I have yet to see say a Tavarez jersey.

It seems that many of the photos show tags that are perhaps as virgin as it gets. I'm wondering how people rate wear. Can we see some photos and discuss what amount of wear a person deems a jersey has. I'm just looking for a personal perspective, not what you would say MEARS or Lampson would rate it. For instance, here is a Nomar alternate that I recently picked up. What would you guys rate the wear on a jersey that shows like this? Use whatever grading scale you wish.

For me, I will use a 1-10 scale.

1-No possible way - it doesn't even match a team issued
5-Tagged correctly, but no signs of wear
10-As good as it gets - Piling, wear, tagged correctly, scratched buttons, etc.

I would rate it as a 6. I can't prove nor disprove it. In my experience, though, the tags are pretty straight. The manufacturers tag is so straight, it appears to have no washes, and the extra length tag doesn't show any "pinkness" from a wash. However, the "2003" tag does show some fading and slight pinkness. However, I do own a Ruben Sierra "Negro League" jersey that shows even less wear. So in my mind, when it comes to alternates, they are just a different breed of jersey.

[kingjammy24]

i look for indicators that tell me that the wear is a) legit, b) consistant with the player, position, games played and c) indicative that the jersey was used for a substantial amount of games. by "substantial" i mean a jersey that's been used for approx. 80 games. i figure that's about the first half of the season. so i'll look at the jersey and certain indicators to gauge whether it appears to me that the jersey was legitimately used for approx. 80 games. it's simply a preference of mine and a little number i look for. i'm not interested in jerseys that saw 10 or 15 games.
so rather than simply trying to see how much use a jersey shows, i'll work backwards by first deciding the amount of use i want it to show, what sort of use it should show, and then seeing if it matches my expectation.

i guess after looking at a bunch of jerseys, you start to get a feel for what an 80 gamer looks like vs a 15 gamer, etc. you get an idea of how puckered a tag should get, of how faded a paper tag should become, how soft the fabric should feel, how loose the buttons should be, etc. that is, you get an idea of the effect of prolonged use on fabric. sort of like an orange farmer determining whether an orange growing on a tree is ripe. he doesn't need a codified scale. he just looks at the orange and with a look, a few touches, and a smell knows if it's ready. i just look at the fabric, letters, numbers, tagging, etc and see if they all look like they've been through approx 80 games. is the fabric too rough? no pucker at all in the tagging? crisp paper flagtags? i leave that orange alone. (am i starting to sound crazy yet?)

it seems easier to look at a jersey and determine how many games it appears to have played in than to gauge it via some sort of sliding scale. let's say i gauge a jersey at a "6". inherantly, what does the 6 really tell me? looking at a jersey and determining that there's no way it could've gone through more than 10 washes, for example, or that it looks like it was used for at least half the season tells me a lot.
(i never understood what lampson or mears meant by "light use". is there a difference, in their books, between light use and no use? have they ever put "no use" on any of their loas? how many games would create "light use"? 3? 10? 20? i'd rather see a comment like "use indicates the jersey was used for approx 1/3 of the season". that tells me something. i have no idea what "light use" is supposed to convey to me or what it constitutes. what constitutes "light use"? one fold in the paper flag tag? a single pine tar stain? 3 pucker lines in one number? i have no clue. conversely, telling me the use on the jersey is indicative of half a season of use tells me everything i need to know. everyone here knows what half a season is. if you asked 20 people here what exactly "medium use" means, you'd get 20 different answers).

so what do i want to see in one of my "80 gamers"? how do i know when one of my little oranges is ripe for plucking? i want soft fabric, a really good pucker or decent fade in the manufacturer tag (pucker for cloth tags, fade for paper tags), i want some fading and puckering in the front logo, numbers, and name and i want all of the fading and puckering to be consistent. i want scratched buttons for most positions. a few broken threads would be nice. i want loose buttons and button holes. i expect some serious pilling around the back and edges for a catcher's jersey. for a physical player like rickey henderson or nomar or roberto alomar, i want to see some abrasion and broken threads on the front logo. for a jersey from a player known for tucking a pinetarred bat under his arm, i want some pine tar stains under the arm. etc etc. whether all of that constitutes a "7", "8", "9" or whatever, all i know is that it's good to go. again, it's not so much that i rate use according to some scale or category. i just look for it to be legit, consistent, and indicative of going through 80 games by that particular player. pretty simple huh?

although i understand that modern players go through more jerseys than those in the 70s or 80s, i don't believe they're going through 1 jersey every 10 games. if all i can find of a certain player are crisp jerseys, then rather than conclude he must be using a new jersey every 10 games, i think it's more likely that he kept his own game jerseys and the crisp ones you see are game-issued and/or doctored. i believe that the jerseys worn by players today should still be expected to show a good amount of wear.

rudy.

[indyred]

I could easily see a Red Sox alternate jersey having almost zero wear. Especially from past 2 seasons. They never use them. Maybe 5 games this season tops. If they have a couple sets of these, your looking 2-3 games wear. A pitcher's jersey, who may not even have played in game or bench player's that only see an inning or two........will probally have nothing. Has Schilling even pitched in a game with this jersey? I remember him being one who always picked the white jersey when it was his start at home on Sunday's.

[trsent]

I could easily see a Red Sox alternate jersey having almost zero wear. Especially from past 2 seasons. They never use them. Maybe 5 games this season tops. If they have a couple sets of these, your looking 2-3 games wear. A pitcher's jersey, who may not even have played in game or bench player's that only see an inning or two........will probally have nothing. Has Schilling even pitched in a game with this jersey? I remember him being one who always picked the white jersey when it was his start at home on Sunday's.

The great argument:

If Curt Schilling put the jersey on his body and sits in the dugout all game, it is still "game used" as he was in the game and ready to play but never was called into the game. Everyone wants each pitcher's jersey to be used in games, but it always doesn't work that way.

mlb.com sells items as game used that were only worn in the dugout. My argument is always simple: If a manager wears a jersey it is game used, so what is the difference from any other player sitting on the bench?

[kingjammy24]

i believe that if a player wears a jersey during the course of a game, as a member of the team, then that jersey is game-used, regardless of what that player does or doesn't do on the field.

however, that's neither here nor there in this thread. if a player sits on the bench, you most definitely will see wear because the jersey will still be washed after the game. wash wear doesn't only occur on jerseys that saw 9 innings of play. if a player sits in the dugout for 9 innings a game, over 150 games, then their jersey should show great wash wear.

here's an interesting little tale; recently a 1994 Duane Ward road jersey sold on ebay. it showed great wear; the sleeve trim was faded, the tagging was extremely faded and beaten. in 1994, Ward sat out the entire season due to surgery and didn't play a single game. i imagine he spent the season accompanying the team on road trips and attending games in the dugout. regardless of the fact that he didn't play a single inning, his jersey was still washed solely because of the fact that it was worn.

playing in a jersey isn't required for wash wear to be evident. wearing one is.

rudy.

[indyred]

i believe that if a player wears a jersey during the course of a game, as a member of the team, then that jersey is game-used, regardless of what that player does or doesn't do on the field.

however, that's neither here nor there in this thread. if a player sits on the bench, you most definitely will see wear because the jersey will still be washed after the game. wash wear doesn't only occur on jerseys that saw 9 innings of play. if a player sits in the dugout for 9 innings a game, over 150 games, then their jersey should show great wash wear.

here's an interesting little tale; recently a 1994 Duane Ward road jersey sold on ebay. it showed great wear; the sleeve trim was faded, the tagging was extremely faded and beaten. in 1994, Ward sat out the entire season due to surgery and didn't play a single game. i imagine he spent the season accompanying the team on road trips and attending games in the dugout. regardless of the fact that he didn't play a single inning, his jersey was still washed solely because of the fact that it was worn.

playing in a jersey isn't required for wash wear to be evident. wearing one is.

rudy.

I'm no expert on jersey wear and I agree about being game used, even if the pitcher didn't get into the game. But would a jersey show much wash wear if it was washed only one time? If they had a couple sets of these and the few times they use them, some may only be washed one or two times.......Also, do most teams wash jerseys before they sell them.