Check out the new Grey Flannel additions........

[Mulligans]

It looks like Grey Flannel added some nice Bats, Jerseys and a few more Football items to their late addition categories! This should turn out to be a great Auction.

http://catalog.greyflannelauctions.c...px?category=51

Happy Easter!

[solarlottry]

Mulligans-dont you find it strange that GF, year after year and auction after auction, always has a Rice, Montana, Young and Lott and they NEVER have any sort of paperwork? I have 2 Montana shirts and both have team letters. Every genuine Montana i have seen has had a team letter or has come from a collector that acquired the shirt before team letters even existed. Shirts like that are not 1990 Wilson shirts.

As for the Rice shirts i have never seen so many without any sort of photo-match or team paperwork. Again i have seen and heard of quite a few in private collections all with team letters.

Just wanted to get your opinion. i wonder who is consigning these?

Paul

[Mulligans]

Hey Paul......I hadn't noticed, but I'm sure that GF has long term relationships with alot of private collectors.

Certain teams attract lots of Serious private collectors and in many cases paperwork is impossible and unecessary when guys have inside sources to the team. I know that this is very common with Celtics Collectors. There are a handful of Guys out there with huge private collections that don't hang out on GU Forums and their team contacts and collections are what I can only dream about!

Because These guys and their Collections are so private, they probably feel very comfortable dealing in confidentiality with GF. I can only assume that there are 49er Collectors who also don't hang out in our circles and have incredible private collections.

[solarlottry]

Hey Paul......I hadn't noticed, but I'm sure that GF has long term relationships with alot of private collectors.

Certain teams attract lots of Serious private collectors and in many cases paperwork is impossible and unecessary when guys have inside sources to the team. I know that this is very common with Celtics Collectors. There are a handful of Guys out there with huge private collections that don't hang out on GU Forums and their team contacts and collections are what I can only dream about!

Because These guys and their Collections are so private, they probably feel very comfortable dealing in confidentiality with GF. I can only assume that there are 49er Collectors who also don't hang out in our circles and have incredible private collections.

I know someone who had the one of the largest private 49er collections in the world. He has shirts from 1946 to 1993. At one point he had 5 Montana shirts but guess what he still got letters from Bronco Hinek stating their authenticity. Back before collecting game used was so popular he got hand written letters from Bronco just for that very reason. He even saved the canceled checks he wrote directly to the team as evidence that he did business with them.

Why would a serious game used collector buy high end items such as Montana and Rice without either team letters or at least a photo-match? It seems fishy to me. I don't know anything about collecting Celtics shirts but I do know that if I was going to invest 10k in a game worn Montana shirt I would want something beside a GF letter stating such. I have absolutely nothing against GF, in fact I have bid on and won quite a few items but to always have the same high end shirts without any evidence of game use besides there opinion seems unrealistic. If you look at some old early 90s GF catalogs there were many 49er shirts sold but most had team letters or at least a player letter. Any shirt can be faked as can letters but it is difficult to obtain the same stationary, letterhead and then forge a signature to go with that shirt.

To me I would rather spend more money on something I know is absolutely genuine. The 49ers sold Montana shirts from the 1988-90 seasons with team letters. Why would a private collector buy a shirt from the team and say that they don't want the letter, especially a QB shirt which can show little use? Seems unrealistic.

As with any auction I think everyone just has to do their own research and bid on things they are comfortable with. I have no idea as to whether or not the current 49er shirts in the latest GF auction are authentic or not as I have no interest in them. If I did I would sure as hell do my homework as a genuine Montana is not cheap.

Always buying 49er gamers especially 1994 shirts and offering up to 500$ finders fee for the right shirt!
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

[Lokee]

Me personally I have seen so many bad items come from Gray Flannel (among other auction houses) I would not take the chance on a Montana/Rice or any other jersey unless I could photomatch it.

[Mulligans]

I hear what your saying, but I know some guys that collect at a whole different level than me and many of my Friends. I'm just a blue collar collector trying to cover my but the best that I can. When I BUY a jersey I'm always trying to get paperwork.

When you are best friends with Robert or Jonathan Kraft and they hand you a Patriots Jersey from a very high profile player, I can assure you that you don't ask Mr. Kraft for a COA. That's just not how things are done at that level. When you personally achieve a certain status in life and you are very close to very important people, all this stuff becomes less important.......it's just a fact.

I'm not going to speak to the fact of whether auction houses auction off questionable items......we know that happens. I like to give them the benefit of the doubt though and hope that they don't do it on purpose?

[legaleagle92481]

i agree with paul on this issue. its not just 49ers though its superstars in general. for instance they have an emmitt smith that imo is not gu. first there is no prova/wetrack tag and those were in emmitt gamers in 02. second light use? for an emmitt smith jersey? running back jerseys take a pounding. even a few carries in a game and the jersey should show some serious use with grass stains and hit marks. i think the bidding public concurs as the current price is so low.

[solarlottry]

So Eddie D was handing out Montana and Rice shirts!? Seriously i could see that happening once or twice but for almost EVERY Montana, Rice and other star player? No way. If you just look at some of the old threads on here collectors stated that when they got 49er shirts from Bronco (and i would consider knowing him to be knowing someone in "high" places) he would always type a letter on the spot. I know 49er collectors all over the country that knew him and knew Dick Dobbins (as did I) and they both would write up or have a letter ready for 99% of what they sold. I know this from buying shirts from Dick personally and from buying shirts from multiple collectors who knew Bronco quite well, well enough to get Christmas and birthday cards from him!

Again I have absolutely nothing against Grey Flannel I just think that if every auction has superstar shirts for sale, from era I am talking about, at least some should have team letters especially since that is how they were sold back then.

Paul

[jhunt28]

Not to change subjets from Niners to Titans, but I had interest in the McNair helmet below. Initially looks good, with PSA/DNA sticker from NFL Auctions, which reads "Item: Helmet Subject:Game Used Authentication Date: 11/15/04 Result/Grade: Authentic Notes: Steve McNair"

Looks great on the surface, until you look at pictures. The McNair helmet in the auction has holes for a High Hookup chinstrap, either snap or screw-in. I cannot find any photos of McNair using a helmet with holes near the decal for a high hookup chinstrap in 2003-2004 season? Would love to hear any plausible explanations, because I would love to pick up an authentic McNair lid. I think I'll keep away for now...



This photo is the item for auctions in Grey Flannel, note high hookup holes




Game photo from 2004, no holes




Another game photo from '04, no holes




A game photo from 2003...still no holes

[cliffjmp33]

Not to change subjets from Niners to Titans, but I had interest in the McNair helmet below. Initially looks good, with PSA/DNA sticker from NFL Auctions, which reads "Item: Helmet Subject:Game Used Authentication Date: 11/15/04 Result/Grade: Authentic Notes: Steve McNair"

Looks great on the surface, until you look at pictures. The McNair helmet in the auction has holes for a High Hookup chinstrap, either snap or screw-in. I cannot find any photos of McNair using a helmet with holes near the decal for a high hookup chinstrap in 2003-2004 season? Would love to hear any plausible explanations, because I would love to pick up an authentic McNair lid. I think I'll keep away for now...



This photo is the item for auctions in Grey Flannel, note high hookup holes

Attachment 49930


Game photo from 2004, no holes

Attachment 49931


Another game photo from '04, no holes

Attachment 49932


A game photo from 2003...still no holes

Attachment 49933

Just quickly went through Getty for ya and same thing, the holes don't appear in any of the Titans or Ravens photos. Could it possibly be a game-used helmet, just not specifically of McNair? Just throwing out ideas as I am clueless too.