Classic Auctions

[Neely8]

Is it me or does that jersey look clean as a whistle? Is there any wear on it?

[kprst6]

Look at how the jersey in the game photo has kind of a "ridge" where the yellow fabric in the shoulders meets the white fabric. Does your jersey have that?

The other thing I noticed is the "A" on the chest. The one in the game photo seems to have a wider, 'blockier' top. It may just be the camera angle, however.

Overall, the two jerseys looks very similar.

Again, we are talking a vintage Penguins jersey from the Steve Latin area. Looking similar and a conclusive photo-match are 2 different stories. I have seen tons of Lemieux and Jagr jerseys that "look similar", but it doesn't mean its a photo-match.

[kprst6]

Is it me or does that jersey look clean as a whistle? Is there any wear on it?

This is just one reason why I questioned it the second I opened the box. It honestly looks brand new with the exception of 1 microscopic mark on the front of the jersey, 2 marks on the back, and 1 small mark on the back rear of the jersey.

If you take the Meigray certificate out of the picture and Classic Auctions name off as being the seller and some random seller sent you this jersey, didn't include the COA, said it was a conclusive photo-match, sent you a registration only COA 3 weeks later, sent it marked as a $50.00 "Shirt" uninsured, and then the original seller can't point out the photo-match they described as being conclusive... I'm sure you would be asking the same questions I am.

Think about it. If the item (or any item) was listed as the following(and don't forget, vintage Jagr and Lemiuex stuff needs to be 100% conclusively photo-matched):

This is an authentic game worn jersey... The cosigner has informed us and stated that the jersey "[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']comes with a Meigray photo LOA, but you can't really see a match on it. "[/FONT] (which is the email Classic Auctions forwarded me), so we can't really guarantee there is a photo-match since neither we nor the seller can find it, it's missing to original COA from Meigray, we added some details about Jagr from a prior season that has nothing to do with the 1998 season, and will send the jersey to you uninsured as a $50.00 "shirt". Oh and by the way, the registration certificate will come separately even though it would fit inside the box. You may or may not get this certificate.

If I would have known the jersey didn't come with the original COA and neither Classic Auctions nor the seller could find a conclusive photo-match, I would have never bid on the jersey. That itself is the main issue. You can't describe an item as having a "conclusive photo-match" if neither the consignee nor the auction house can give proof of the match.

[BarryMeisel]

Kurt,

Almost all of what you say regarding Pens' jerseys from this era is 100% true. We agree with you.

What Stu and now I have been constantly trying to tell you is this:

We have photo-matched the jersey. We would not have sent this jersey with a photo, and registered it, unless we were 100% CERTAIN.

Like Stu has stated to you, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO RE-PHOTO MATCH THE JERSEY FOR YOU. IN FACT, IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH THE COST OF SHIPPING, WE WILL PICK UP THE SHIPPING SO YOU ARE NOT OUT ONE PENNY.

And as I have already said, there is no authentication fee involved here since we already authenticated the jersey.

BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE JERSEY HERE TO DO THE RE-PHOTO MATCHING. AND HERE IS WHY, something Stu already told you:

Sometimes, depending upon the quality of the photo and the digital reproduction, a conclusive photo-match in our office, using high quality monitors and a blowup of a photo, might not translate perfectly to a print.

Stu also mentioned to you that he would enhance and pinpoint the match for you in the photo LOA---ONCE WE GOT THE SHIRT BACK.

Happy to help, you just need to let us do the job we've offered at no cost to you.

Feel free to call me toll-free at 888-463-4472, or continue this conversation on this thread. Happy to handle it either way.

Finally, this jersey was registered as a 1998 NHL All-Star Skills Competition jersey. That is why you do not see any wear, and that is why the photo provided was one from the 1998 All-Star Skills Competition.

Regards, Barry

[kprst6]

Barry,

I understand what you are saying, however my concerns have to do with the jersey not being photo-matchable. Yes I understand that you photo-matched a jersey (we can't be sure this is the same jersey unless a photo-match is found) at one point in time and the COA that Stu created would have that information on it.

When I send you the jersey (I'll meet you half way and I'm going to pay for the shipping to you guys, because I'm not trying to get something for nothing, but I think it's ridiculous that Meigray and I are out shipping & insurance costs over this), if the jersey isn't photo-matchable then what happens and who is responsible for the jersey Meigray or Classic? I really don't want to deal with both companies pointing the finger at the other company and/or at the consigner.

What if the only photo-matchable area is still questionable and not conclusive? I would say I still have a case with Classic Auctions since the original COA does not exist. I.E, it looks like this area and this area could possibly show proof of a match, but it's not conclusive. Am I required to keep the jersey now that it's certified as more of a photo-reference? If it's not a conclusive match, doesn't the value of the jersey decrease? I wouldn't have bid 1 penny if I knew the photo-match wasn't conclusive.


Shouldn't my initial email to them asking to pinpoint the photo-match location been answered a week ago if they verified it as being a conclusive match before posting it for sale? I would say yes because I paid over $300.00 in hammer fees for their guarantee. If Classic auctions themselves can't authenticate a conclusive match as was stated in their auction, they should have never listed it as being so. No where in the auction did it state that the jersey would need to be sent to Meigray for re-authentication because all parties involved did not know where the conclusive match can be found. If I would have known this information in advance, I wouldn't have bid on the jersey. If they would have contacted Meigray in advance, ironed out the photo-match questions since neither they nor the consigner could verify it, the issue would have never escalated to this point. I would still have complained about their ridiculous shipping procedure, however its shady that I got the COA 3 weeks after the jersey.


Other items in the auction were clearly incorrect and not at all researched by them such as the Steve Thomas 03/04 Red Wings Pre-Season jersey. http://www.classicauctions.net/Defau...d=61&lotid=611

He played for the Blackhawks in 02/03 and started the 03/04 season on the Ducks. The Red Wings picked him up in the middle of the 03/04 season, so it is impossible for him to have played in the pre-season for the Wings when he played for the Ducks. Items like this show they did little do little to no research on the item and it took me all but 10 seconds to Google search this information.

Again, I'm not arguing against you, I'm arguing that this should have never happened in the first place. This thread is proving Meigray is reputable, respectable, and even willing to clean up other companies messes at no charge to the customer. In this day and age, you can't say that about many companies.

Thanks for the help and I hope this jersey can be re-authenticated because I want to keep it if proven to be authentic (which I have shown my doubts loud and clear).

[BarryMeisel]

Hi Kurt,

Obviously I can't answer questions or hypotheticals posed in Classic's direction, and you've posed a lot of what ifs?

Let's go one step at a time ... once we get the jersey, we will work on satisfying your desire to have a conclusive photo-match.

If you are not satisfied once we do that, then you can discuss with Classic the next steps.

Regards,
Barry

[commando]

Again, we are talking a vintage Penguins jersey from the Steve Latin area. Looking similar and a conclusive photo-match are 2 different stories. I have seen tons of Lemieux and Jagr jerseys that "look similar", but it doesn't mean its a photo-match.

Why don't you tell us how this jersey can be photo matched. According to you, it cannot because there is no noticeable wear to match up. Just get to the point and say you want your money back.

[kprst6]

Why don't you tell us how this jersey can be photo matched. According to you, it cannot because there is no noticeable wear to match up. Just get to the point and say you want your money back.

I am not even sure what you mean? I can't tell you how the jersey could be photo-matched because in my opinion it can't.

Classic Auction won't issue me a refund because they are saying it can be photo-matched but they can't tell me how or where. Meigray is the one that's going to attempt to re-authenticate the photo-match to prove or disprove the jerseys authenticity.

[commando]

I am not even sure what you mean? I can't tell you how the jersey could be photo-matched because in my opinion it can't.

Classic Auction won't issue me a refund because they are saying it can be photo-matched but they can't tell me how or where. Meigray is the one that's going to attempt to re-authenticate the photo-match to prove or disprove the jerseys authenticity.

I agree with you 100% that a style match is not a photo match. If the jersey you purchased shows no wear, and there are no "easy" clues like pinstripes or loose threads to match up, then I'm not sure if a true photo match is possible? I looked at your two photos very closely and could only find two possible areas of interest -- the color of the seams that separate the shoulder colors and the letter "A."

I hope this works out well for everyone. That is a very nice item, to say the least.

(Back to lurking.... over my head)

[kprst6]

I agree with you 100% that a style match is not a photo match. If the jersey you purchased shows no wear, and there are no "easy" clues like pinstripes or loose threads to match up, then I'm not sure if a true photo match is possible? I looked at your two photos very closely and could only find two possible areas of interest -- the color of the seams that separate the shoulder colors and the letter "A."

I hope this works out well for everyone. That is a very nice item, to say the least.

(Back to lurking.... over my head)

Yeah, and the black portion of the "A" seems to be shifted to the right on the game photo. There is no ridge on the jersey I have, its just creased in the game photo. The neckline is the closest thing I have found to be an anti-photomatch. The left yellow portion of the neckline near the "V" is 1/4 inch higher than the right portion in the jersey I have. In the game photo, they seem to be pretty close to matching correctly, but then again, it could be the angle of the photo.