Reggie Jackson bat help requested

[2OnBase]

Mike and Jim! I noticed on previous post about 73-75 Jackson bats that nothing was noted on the K75 Jackson bats as being previously ordered. Yet, it is described in the "Bats" book as being one he used. Are there any records for the K75's placed by Jackson and/or Team index bats? Thanks you for your help!

Rod Larson

[MSpecht]

Hi Rod--

Sorry I did not see the follow-up question on the previous post.

During the 1973-75 label perion, there are no shipments of K75 bats documented as going to Reggie Jackson. He did, however, use K75 bats prior to 1973 and subsequent to 1975.

His first order of K75 was shipped on 4/20/67. Subsequent orders are documented in in each following year until 2/3/71. Thereafter, from 10/13/82 through 3/8/89, all orders of K75 Jackson signature model bats were shipped to Baseball Miscellaneous (usually without a specified weight), Baseball Promotions, or other promotional companies.

What happened that would cause Reggie to suddenly stop use (or orders) of a model that he had ordered frequently throughout his career up to early 1971? On 3/23/71 Jackson was shipped 6 model J93 bats -- J93 model bats were a new model, made at Jackson's request, that are documented in Jackson's personal factory records as "Model K75 with (illegible) off the barrel (new) model J93" Basically, Jackson modified a K75 bat to reduce the barrel size and come up with a bat that he preferred, which was designated J93, and which remained his model of preference through the remainder of his career.

Jim may have more specific information on Yankee team index orders in the 1973-75 label period. Given that many Jackson signature model K75 bats were sent to Baseball Miscellaneous over the years as noted above, it was most certainly used as an H & B pro stock model of Reggie Jackson's, and could likely have been included in team orders with Jackson's signature.

Here's an important tip. All of Jacksons K75 bats shipped for his professional use were in lengths of 35.5 inches ( 95% of the orders) and 35 inches ( 5% ). Models in later label periods shipped to Baseball Miscellaneous were always in 34.5 inch lengths, and one order to Ike Co. (promo) was 34 inches. Those dimensions may have been consistent with earlier (non-documented) Baseball Miscellaneous orders. Team orders, however, would have likely been in a variety of lengths as they were ordered for the use of any player in the organization.

Finally, yes, model K75 is referenced in the book BATS as a model used in the 1973-75 label period by Reggie Jackson. That information was later found to be in error when the H & B factory records became available. Here is a description of the basic research component that went into that book:

"The publishing of the book BATS -- PROFESSIONAL HILLERICH & BRADSBY AND ADIRONDACK 1950-1994 was completed in July, 1995 and the book debuted at the St. Louis National that year. The book was the first all-inclusive resource available to game used bat collectors. The information in the book was gathered from a Who's Who of Bat Collecting at the time, including, in addition to the authors (Vince Malta, Bill Riddell, Ron Fox, and Mike Specht), such people as Dave Bushing, Steve Terman, Michael Montbriand, John Taube, Stanley Kesselman, and Zane Burns. In addition to the resource it provided, the publication of the book was instrumental in uncovering the Holy Grail for bat collectors, the Hillerich & Bradsby factory records."

A more complete description may be found in the Expert's Corner on the Game Used Universe site at http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/blog/post.php?topic=151

At the point of initial sale of the book, a sheet was inserted into each book noting approximately 10 errors that had been discovered after the book had gone to the publisher. Along with the error you found, one of the most frequent inclusions that is the source of questions is Carl Yaztrzemski's use of model K48 bats during his career.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[JimCaravello]

Hey guys - the Yankees Team Index records for the 70's that I have do not show any Jax models being ordered. The records have a lot of entries that read "See Index" which could refer to the fact that there are specific Index Records for those entries not listed on what I believe is the Master Index Records Card. Jim - jcaravello@nc.rr.com

[2OnBase]

Thank you, gentlemen! A K75 1973-75 Jackson bat I have in my possesion is 34 7/8" x 32 ounces, cracked with a natural finish. Much of the finish is worn off on the left handed hitting surface which displays excellent use with seam impressions and checked wood. The wood also appears to be a little "dry" on the barrel from the years and use. No uniform number is on the knob or butt though. Reggie would have still been playing for the A's at this time, so the Team Index records, or lack there of, would be of interest to me if you find them. But assuming the lack or documentation for orders of this size of bat at this date of manufacture, what's your gut telling you and what cannot be ruled out? Are we finding another "hole" in the records? Thank you again for your work on this.

Rod

[MSpecht]

Hi Rod--

Thanks for the follow-up info and questions. We do not have the A's team order records, and I mistakenly referred to the Yankees orders by not double checking team dates for Reggie....his 3 HRs in the Series just kind of led me to the Yankee.without stopping to think twice about it.

Regardless, to your question of "what is your best guess." I would say, without actually seeing the bat, that it is likely a Pro Stock model bat, as K75 is Reggie Jackson's Pro Stock model, ordered by the Oakland A's for use of their Major and Minor League players.

Pro Stock model bats are professional model bats, usually ordered by professional teams for their players at the Major or Minor League levels. What makes it confucing for collectors, however, is that a team, say Oakland, would consistently order K75 Reggie Jackson signature model bats to have on hand for their Major League position players, pitchers, and their affiliated Minor League teams and that some of those Pro Stock bats would be in dimensions, as luck would have it, that Jackson ordered for his professional use. More confusing in this situation, is that Jackson used the exact model in those dimensions in an earlier labeling period. Thus, in 1973-1975, Jackson had access to a model that he had previously ordered (documented), in dimensions he had previously used (documented), even though he personmally was not shipped K75 bats in that label period. Another common example of this situation occurs with Mickey Mantle K55 bats.

It becomes less problematic when the Pro Stock bat has dimensions extremely uncharacteristic of those documented ordered by the player.

Without seeing this specific bat, but assuming all labeling is consistent with professional model bats, I believe this bat would likely be authenticated as a professional model bat, manufactured for professional player use, undocumented in the factory records as having been ordered by the player whose name appears on the barrel (Reggie Jackson,) with use by an unknown player that cannot be specifically attributed to Reggie Jackson. One of the keys in this situation is the new model J93 made to Reggie Jackson's specifications in 1971, which was a modification of the K75 bat, following which there are no documented orders of K75 bats in Jackson's personal factory records for the remainder of his career.

I believe that team index bats are a financially reasonable alternative to bats that are fully documented in a player's personal H & B records, particularly when it comes to the higher priced bats in the hobby, as long as collectors fully understand what they are getting. I do not believe, as others apparently do, that fairly high prices being paid for Team Index bats in recent auctions indicate that there is a wide-spread acceptance of Team Index / Pro Stock bats as having likely attribution to the player whose name appears on the barrel. The more likely scenario is that an uninformed collector overpaid for a bat that is not fully documented in a player's personal factory records because he saw a high grade placed on the bat; he did not understand that the high grade was not the result of order or use by the player whose name was on the barrel, but was due instead to significant use of a pro model bat by an unknown player, batboy, or whomever.

Good Luck in future collecting.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[2OnBase]

Thank you for your response, Mike. It is much appreciated. But, in difference to your comment, I am one who believes the prices for the index, off-label brands, older store model bats that meet length/weight/date/and model used, and some bats that fall into "holes" due to the lack of accurate records will continue to draw higher prices as "premium game bats" continue to escalate in price. These "lesser" bats are simply following the market of the premium type bats and I beleive in some cases, may be found to be more rare with regards to actual known numbers to exist.

Regarding potential use of a bat, outside of providing factually that these were professional models, it is difficult, if not impossible, to absolutely prove or disprove use in most cases....that is that the particular player did or did NOT use these bats in a game. All is subject to opinion and what one believes the percentage chance of use is per the values they place as most important. Although as a bat collector, I agree the more valuable bats are those that have multiple characteristics of use known by the player, factory recorded & matched examples to a particular player, as well as provenance, it still cannot be ignored that more and more photo documentation on use of off-label brands are becoming evident. And it does not take as big a leap in faith for one to think that players (and stars) may have used index bats, especially if the team purchases the lengths and weights that the player felt comfortable with and/or ordered previously. Such is the case as well, with players that are on record that they used certain lengths or models that are not documented in their ordering records.

Mike, I find the information you share invaluable and thank you for your willingness to share openly such information. Likewise, I am not attempting to create controversy, I simply differ in opinion with you and some others on the value of these "lesser" bats....it is truly up to the owner/purchaser to designate this value based upon the attributes they feel are desirable.

Regards,

Rod Larson