Players who trade jerseys

[Birdbats]

Here's an interesting article on players who trade jerseys with other players.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi...&date=20060828

I knew this went on, but didn't realize it was so widespread. Adds a new wrinkle to the whole "game used" vs. "game issued" debate since it seems these traded jerseys aren't necessarily worn before being traded. I've been told that Pujols does this (I'd think his jersey is really in demand), but the jerseys he gives away are tailored differently than his gamers -- gamers have a straight hem, the "giveaways" have tails. I'm also aware of "gift jerseys" that have 6200 laundry tags. I've wondered if Majestic, knowing an order of a dozen jerseys is being made for player trading, intentionally supplies 6200 jerseys. It could explain why some "gamers" have 6200 tags. Who knows?

Jeff
http://www.birdbats.com

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers-
Not sure if anyone is aware that Majestic has an account that allows ANY equipment manager from ANY MLB team to order the exact same jersey from any player/team. For example, the Mariners equipment manager can order a 2006 Jeter jersey. This jersey will have the EXACT same tagging (0062) and be manufactured to the same specs as the one Jeter is currently wearing on the field.

If you have any doubt about this happening, just take a look at some of the current auctions that have the "superstar" jerseys, with all the correct tags, however, show little or no use.

If an equipment manager orders an assortment of 20 superstar jerseys, there is a possibility of making some great side money. A $2,000 investment can easily turn into $20,000 or more.

Now combine this with the story about the players also ordering game jerseys and you have a pretty sad state of affairs.

I'll stick with the older knits and pass on the Majestic mass produced crap.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[metsbats]

Howard,

That great and distressing infomation. That's why I like the older 80's jerseys.

When you say the same exact specs does that include any custom tagging (ie -1 sleeves, +2 inch lengths, etc), and set and year tags. I thought the teams put those on and not the manufacturing company.

Thanks
-David

[hblakewolf]

David-
Majestic sews the tagging on during manufacturing, not the team.

I was told that the shirts ordered by the equip. mgrs. are the EXACT same, including tagging.

I'm sure Majestic will deny that equip. mgrs. can order these jerseys, however, please remember that I also was told directly from a source inside of MLB that Majestic had 2 different codes on their jerseys, 0062 and 6200, which Majestic denied after I made this "strictly private" info public.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[RobSteinmetz]

Based on my personal experience in speaking to folks who manage special events hosted by MLB athletes, I can tell you with certainty that a large percentage of jerseys special ordered by players (or equipment managers) of players not on their team are not always completely correct (proper tagging, correct size, etc.).

In fact, I recently attended an event in Chicago in which there were 15-20 signed jerseys, most of which were obtained by a MLB player by ordering them directly from Majestic for the sole purpose of having them signed for the charity auction. 99% of the jerseys were coded "0062", but most had problems. Here are some of my observations:

White Sox - This event had 4 superstar jerseys (Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle). All were "0062" coded, all were the proper sizes for each player. None had the strip tag on the tail, as is appropriate for this year's Sox jerseys.

Braves - This event had 3 superstar jerseys (Smoltz, Jones, Jones). All were "0062" coded, all were the proper sizes for each player. None had any year tagging, which should be found on this year's Braves shirts.

Cardinals - This event had 3 superstar jerseys (Rolen, Pujols, Edmonds). Rolen and Pujols were "0062" coded, Edmonds was "6200" coded. The Pujols, although pro-coded, was the wrong size - 52 instead of his proper size 50. Rolen was the correct size, as was Edmonds. None had year tagging (some Cardinals jerseys have year tagging this year, some do not).

Cubs - Because the event was hosted by a Cubs player, all of the Cubs jerseys in the auction were properly tagged, and in most cases, showed evidence of use. These clearly weren't "extras" ordered just for this event.

Although there were some definite "gamers" mixed in to this group, there were many jerseys obtained by this MLB player that were clearly "extras" ordered by the Cubs equipment manager. Long story short...know what is correct for your team or your player before you purchase a current game worn jersey. Although equipment managers and players are allowed to order other players/teams jerseys from Majestic, things aren't always as they seem.

[hblakewolf]

Rob-
I don't disagree with you that there may be differences, however, did the individual who ordered these jerseys for the charity specifically "DEMAND" that they be manufactured/purchased to the exact same specs as those worn, i.e., did he order them in the correct size and ask for year tags, strip tags, etc? I was told that the equip. mgrs. can order the EXACT same jersey as those supplied to the players. I'd be willing to bet that if the individual you reference had demanded the same shirt as Pujols wears (size 50) that he would have received it in size 50, not 52. Likewise, Braves jerseys would have the strip tag if specified.

It's interesting how you mention that the Braves jerseys were void of the strip tags. If memory serves correct, we had a huge debate on this Forum about this issue and also related to the Red Sox having/not having strip tags. Maybe this sheds some light on why you see Braves and Red Sox 2004, 2005, 2006 jerseys with the coorect 0062 tag, however, void of the embroidered tag in the tail.

Regardless, if an equip. mgr. orders a Pujols, and it is manufactured to the incorrect size 52, how many novice collectors will be aware of the incorrect size once it's featured in an auction or sale list? Or a Red Sox 2005 or 2006 jersey void of the year tag, however, has a LOA from Lampson?


Just my thoughts......

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Based on my personal experience in speaking to folks who manage special events hosted by MLB athletes, I can tell you with certainty that a large percentage of jerseys special ordered by players (or equipment managers) of players not on their team are not always completely correct (proper tagging, correct size, etc.).

In fact, I recently attended an event in Chicago in which there were 15-20 signed jerseys, most of which were obtained by a MLB player by ordering them directly from Majestic for the sole purpose of having them signed for the charity auction. 99% of the jerseys were coded "0062", but most had problems. Here are some of my observations:

White Sox - This event had 4 superstar jerseys (Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle). All were "0062" coded, all were the proper sizes for each player. None had the strip tag on the tail, as is appropriate for this year's Sox jerseys.

Braves - This event had 3 superstar jerseys (Smoltz, Jones, Jones). All were "0062" coded, all were the proper sizes for each player. None had any year tagging, which should be found on this year's Braves shirts.

Cardinals - This event had 3 superstar jerseys (Rolen, Pujols, Edmonds). Rolen and Pujols were "0062" coded, Edmonds was "6200" coded. The Pujols, although pro-coded, was the wrong size - 52 instead of his proper size 50. Rolen was the correct size, as was Edmonds. None had year tagging (some Cardinals jerseys have year tagging this year, some do not).

Cubs - Because the event was hosted by a Cubs player, all of the Cubs jerseys in the auction were properly tagged, and in most cases, showed evidence of use. These clearly weren't "extras" ordered just for this event.

Although there were some definite "gamers" mixed in to this group, there were many jerseys obtained by this MLB player that were clearly "extras" ordered by the Cubs equipment manager. Long story short...know what is correct for your team or your player before you purchase a current game worn jersey. Although equipment managers and players are allowed to order other players/teams jerseys from Majestic, things aren't always as they seem.

[kingjammy24]

jeff, rob, howard,

fantastic information! after noticing huge quantities of certain jerseys, i now have a better idea of how the glut was created. i was really wondering where all these mint, "game issued"-style jerseys were coming from. (has there been a single auction in the past 2 yrs that hasn't had a pujols jersey?).

rob, in addressing these special-ordered, non-used jerseys, you describe how many aren't entirely "correct". the pujols jersey, for example, was a 52 instead of a 50. others lacked certain tagging. they had, in other words, some anomalies from legit versions. however, you're well aware that legit, gameworn jerseys don't always follow a conclusive, complete, "set in stone" list of criteria. there'll always be anomalies. the big question is how can someone know which anomalies are legit and which aren't? it isn't difficult in the least to believe, for example, that pujols might've tried a few 52s. it seems to me that the information provided by jeff, howard and yourself indicates that these recent trends now make it even more difficult for someone to discern legit from not legit. it's very difficult to know what's truly correct when the definition of correct has some leeway inherantly and legitimately built into it. (what the jersey hobby really needs is what the bat hobby has - access to factory records. making the order forms from majestic, rawlings, and russell available would solve most of these issues).

if howard's correct, then many of these jerseys may not even have any anomalies. i suppose the only thing you're left with in that case is to look at the game-use (or lack thereof).

at one point, i think the biggest concern was about fraudsters creating doctored jerseys. for various reasons, i think this concern is slowly becoming antiquated. it requires a lot of work that's no longer necessary now that teams and players themselves are selling pro-spec jerseys by the boatload, and teams are selling legit game-issued jerseys directly to the public. it's turned into a windfall for anyone who ever wanted to turn a quick buck.

although there was some deliberate market saturation with certain jerseys in the 90's (eg: ken griffey jr), i think this current era is witnessing a dramatic new shift in the supply and authenticity of jerseys and i don't think it's a good thing. in the 90s, card companies over-supplied the market simply because they thought they were meeting the demand. as it turned out, the deliberate over-supply killed the very market they were trying to satisfy and profit from. i can't help but see a parallel in the current state of jerseys. the supply of jerseys has increased to an unbelievable point simply because it seems everyone wants to cash in and new channels of supply have enabled them to do so.

rudy.

[ahuff]

Great post Rudy. I couldn't help but think of the same thing while reading this post, and during recent days of collecting. Recent days have made me seriously reconsider what I collect, when it comes to the new stuff.

[GrndSlm]

Alot of this information has been rumored for years. We must remember that part of the "hobby" is investigating and hunting for these prized pieces. I also know for a fact that players order jerseys for trade. My clients have instructed there equipt. mgrs to order them 10-12 jerseys before the season actually starts. This usually means that those jerseys come in all at the same time with proper tagging and sizes. Usually, any pieces that are ordered during the season will come in with some kind of problem. But, who is to say whether they used this item or not ? I also have obtained jerseys directly from the player with somekind of issue or inconsistancy. Recently, one of my clients obtained a Pujols jersey directly after the game and it had the proper tag and size but was a 6200. I cant get anymore direct than that !! Remember that players have been doing this with bats for years and we managed to enjoy the hobby with many lightly used bats hitting the market. Lets just try and continued the trend with jerseys and just buy what makes you happy.

Thanks,
Juan Iglesias
GrndSLm@aol.com

[GrndSlm]

Now, in reference to any equipt. mgr. ordering jerseys......My clients have asked me to order jerseys ,of other players, through the team and I personally have talked to the equipt mgr. with mixed results. They have ordered the jerseys for me but in no way have they ever come back with proper game used tagging. !! Also, in 2001 Livan Hernandez had asked me to order some Yankee jerseys using his brothers name with the equipt mgr. I ordered a Mariano Rivera, and El Duque for Livan and his brother. None of these pieces came back with proper tagging and they ALL had the "R" on the sleeve. I guess what I am trying to say is that these jerseys could be ordered through the teams but I personally have never received a properly tagged non-generic jersey through this process. Last note, Pujols is very selective with all his game used items. ( as most of you know). He gave Livan a jersey on the last meeting they had last year and personalized it to him. He doesnt give out his GAMERS without personalizing them first or through his foundation. Stuff always filter out but not through proper channels. Enjoy !!

Juan Iglesias
GrndSlm@aol.com