PayPal as a Gift

[frikativ54]

I want to begin by pointing out that this thread is not directed at anyone in specific. My goal is not to single anyone out, as I've seen this request from several people both on this forum and in private transactions as of late. I was just kind of wondering if others had trouble with the PayPal as a gift phenomenon on either ethical or practical grounds.

As a buyer, I have no problem paying for PayPal fees. However, I don't want to send money via PayPal as a gift for a seller I don't know personally. After all, if the item doesn't show up, what recourse do I have? If I understand correctly, by sending PayPal as a gift, I am losing any PayPal buyer protection I would get. It's just not a risk I want to take, especially if the seller is a stranger. Does anyone else feel similarly?

I also just have a problem saying that something is a gift if it's really not. I mean, it's not a huge deal if it's a $10 transaction, and that is so minor that it doesn't really bother me. However, if it's above that amount, then I feel an obligation to represent my dealings the way they truly happened. Again, I am more than gladly willing to pay a few dollars extra if someone asks me to offset PayPal fees. Just ask, and I am more than willing to compensate people.

But on the Collector to Collector Classifieds, I'm seeing people request that PayPal be sent as a gift, to the tune of $100+ dollar transactions. That is what's truly troubling to me. If the fees bother people so much, why not add an extra charge onto the price? This extra charge seems much more reasonable on my end than a request that I misrepresent my transaction to PayPal and ultimately lose any buyer protection.

Honestly, there is a lot of grey-area with this issue. Personally, I don't see as big of a problem with PayPal as a gift in partial-cash, partial trade deals. After all, in these types of deals, something else is being exchanged. For me, when a trade is involved, it is proof of a transaction in and of itself. I'm really curious to read what everyone else thinks about PayPal as a gift. It seems that in the past six months that these requests are really increasing.

Thoughts?

-Frik

[commando]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I have wondered about this myself. I agree 100% that a seller should post a price that takes the Paypal fees into consideration. I'm no Paypal expert, but if its true that the buyer loses his protection in a "gift" transaction, then the gift thing should be banned from the forum classifieds.

[godwulf]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I've sold maybe a dozen bats and a few jerseys on the C-to-C board in the last year or so, and - at least recently - I have asked for a PayPal gift, in order to save on some fees. I guess I justify this by thinking about how I usually end up losing money on the shipping end...but I recognize that it is a justification, not an excuse.

It would not hurt my feelings in the slightest if somebody balked at doing it...and, in the case of eBay transactions, I would probably never even ask, unless it was somebody I knew from other sales or in real life, or someone with whom I'd had friendly conversation prior to the payment.

Here's something else to think about: When I discovered eBay, about 1998, there were virtually no restrictions on how the Buyer paid. Check, money order, "well-hidden cash"...whatever. Then eBay bought PayPal. (I think we can all see where this story is going to end.) Not having sold anything on eBay for a few years, I recently tried listing an item, and included that money orders could be used for payment...and the system would not let me list the item until I'd removed the words "money order" from the item description. In my view, eBay has gone just a bit overboard in trying to wring more and more money out of its users; mandating that all payments must be made through PayPal goes too far, in my opinion.

[34swtns]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I've had an increasing number of people lately asking that I pay them for goods or services as a "gift" through Paypal in order to avoid the fees. I don't know if Paypal monitors this sort of thing or not but it's not worth the risk to me so I just throw in an extra few bucks (per hundred sent) to cover the fee. My thought is that if you are receiving multiple payments from people all over the country as "gifts" paypal is eventually gonna catch on that you are selling stuff and hold someone accountable. All I know is that I'm not gonna get caught up in the inevitable crackdown that's coming once Paypal puts a stop to this practice, and they will eventually.

[godwulf]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I've had an increasing number of people lately asking that I pay them for goods or services as a "gift" through Paypal in order to avoid the fees. I don't know if Paypal monitors this sort of thing or not but it's not worth the risk to me so I just throw in an extra few bucks (per hundred sent) to cover the fee. My thought is that if you are receiving multiple payments from people all over the country as "gifts" paypal is eventually gonna catch on that you are selling stuff and hold someone accountable. All I know is that I'm not gonna get caught up in the inevitable crackdown that's coming once Paypal puts a stop to this practice, and they will eventually.

A guy from whom I've bought a number of bats, both on and off eBay, recently told me that he'd been informed by PayPal that if he received two hundred or more payments in a year, even if they were processed as "gifts", the information would be provided to the IRS.

[mariner_gamers]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Good timing with this thread. I just sent my last "gift" to a seller this morning. This practice has just exploded the past few months. Suddenly everyone wants the buyer to send money as gift. Look as a seller just figure out the darn fees, tack it on the price and lets get on with it.

[ncbadges]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I don't really Like to send as a gift but TS no different than sending a money order...as most sellers used to prefer.
Ncb

[otismalibu]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

What it comes down to is that sellers think their gross should also be their net. If you want to work it into your price, then fine...just don't mention in the TOS. When I see someone asking for an additional 4% for Paypal fees, i just hit the back button. When I take a cab, I don't chip in for gas money on top of the fare.

[BULBUS]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I just sent my last Paypal gift. Unless I have dealt with the person priviously and the transaction was smooth, I'll never use the gift option. I also think Paypal will crack down on this in the near future. They are losing money on these transactions.

[lakeerie92]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Paypal now charges the fees normally charged to the receiver to they buyer now with the gift option, UNLESS, you have the money in your paypal account already then no fees are charged. There used to be no charges at all but it looks as if paypal has already caught on. I will gladly send it as a gift to someone I trust, but other than that I won't do it.

[gnishiyama]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I have unfortunately had small deals fall apart because of a squabble
over paypal gift. Even if this hobby isn't a business for the seller,
paypal fees should be considered a cost of doing business and should
be incurred by the seller. The seller is paying for convenience and the
buyer is receiving protection. Its a win-win situation.

Sometimes if I really want an item I would offer to pay the fees but
its never a good feeling and most of the time I'll just refuse on
principle. I will go as far as saying its unprofessional. If you went to the
supermarket or a restaurant and they included a 4% fee for using a credit
card you would balk too. I am not talking here about a couple long
time trading buddies sending each other payment to cover a trade
but a general transaction with someone who you don't know.

As someone mentioned if you care so much about the 4% price it in to your
asking price.

Just my 2 cents.

Goh Nishiyama

[R.Mansfield]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I have been asked about this gift option for almost every transaction I have been in for quite some time, and frankly it is getting old. It seems like on every deal we settle in on a price and then this gift crap comes up, one last gotcha…

I agree that the seller should account for these pay pal fees, shipping, handling, insurance…when coming up with an asking price.

I always end up chipping in some extra money to cover the fees, I am not willing to give up the protection that pay-pal provides, trying to do someone else a favor, saving a few bucks.

To me it is business not personal. I don’t care if it is a stranger or my brother who lives next door, I am weary about every transaction, it seems like everyone is constantly trying to pull something.

Russell Mansfield
batdna@sbcglobal.net

[Tedw9]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I agree with those who pay the fees themselves, I won't send via gift, I pay the fees myself. The only time I gift the money is if I am donating to a cause. Or in a few months, I will be gifting my daughter money while she is away in college. I don't need my account banned because someone wants to save a few bucks, I'll pay it myself.

To help those who are paying the fees themselves, here is a nifty little site to help you figure out exactly how much to spend.

http://www.rolbe.com/paypal4.htm

[5toolplayer]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I agree with every single post on this thread. I've done numerous deals on this board the last few months and 99.99% of the time after a price is agreed upon I tell the seller to send me a paypal invoice and then the "gift" option is brought right up. Why can't the seller just add all the charges into their asking price?? If you want 150 for a bat and want to clear 150, ask for 157 via paypal. Make this easy. Oh and yeah, if you send the payment as a gift and never receive your item, paypal doesn't cover anything!! Lesson learned, trust me!

[indyred]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Unless you know the person well and live near them I would never ever gift a payment. As a buyer you lose any and all protection in the deal. No charge back or any recourse if you get screwed in the deal. No way to pressure seller if they are slow shipping ect... Seller doesn't even have to use insurance or prove it was delivered. You can't get back a gift payment no matter what.

As a Seller getting gift payments is the best. No worry of charge backs or having to worry about losing the money if deal goes bad.