ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

[CampWest]

thesofasurfer currently has listed a Billy Butler 2010 signed jersey that he is listing as game used and providing patently 100% FALSE and contrived chain of provenance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Butler-Kansas-City-Royals-Authentic-Game-Used-Jersey-/300566804211?pt=US_Baseball_Fan_Shop&hash=item45fb2d76f3

I originally purchased this "team-issued" Butler jersey from an online Royals Charities auction in January 2011. In February I sold it to a collector as a game/team issued signed jersey. A month or two ago, that collector then listed it on ebay as a game/team issued jersey and sold it to TheSofaSurfer. This fact I just confirmed with the guy I sold the jersey to.

Thesofasurfer is now listing the jersey as game used with a fake story of provenance. "Obtained from Billy's neighbor who watches his dog while he's on the road."

The jersey showed no use, when I owned it. I bought it from Royals Charities hoping it was game used, when it was clearly not game used, I decided to sell.

To prove this is the same jersey, you can note the exact perfect matching of the autograph on the jersey I originally purchased to the jersey currently for sale by thesofasurfer. His picture first, mine is second. The top of the first B clips the corner of the 6, there is a stitching anamoly just to the right of that. The second B has a smudge on the bottom stitching. And everything else is perfectly identical. And as a Butler collector I can tell you, no two Butler autographs are exactly the same.

It is, in my opinion, conclusive especially when combined with the known chain of custody.

[EurekaDave]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Very interesting! Thanks. I wonder what the "letter of opinion" is he is talking about.

Dave Silverbrand

[otismalibu]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Same idea.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=44204

[CampWest]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Very interesting! Thanks. I wonder what the "letter of opinion" is he is talking about.

Dave Silverbrand

Whatever it is, it is probably not worth much more than his false story of provenance...

Looking through his feedback, he buys a lot of replica jerseys... and commemorative patches... lots of red flags on this guy.

[csu398]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

And somebody paid a grand earlier for this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330576033213

[EurekaDave]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

And somebody paid a grand earlier for this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330576033213

This is just amazing!!! I just love the euphemism "comes with all the paperwork." I "come with all the paperwork" too, but I'm sure as hell not worth $1,100.

Dave Silverbrand

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Why did you sell it as "game/team issued" instead of just "team issued" as you bought it?

Not trying to pick a fight but wasn't that a bit borderline deceptive too?

[kprst6]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

This is why I personally feel "issued" items should be destroyed and never released to the public. After this jersey changes hands 20 more times and looks like the real deal in 20 years, it's probably going to be mistaken as a real gamer. Someome is going to truley believe its game used and when it shows the correct age and wear in 20 years it will look even more authentic. I've seen modern GI jerseys sell for upwards of 2k for high end players and can only imagine that they'll resurface as game worn someday. I mean who really wants a 2k game issued jersey unless theres an alterior motive?

[CampWest]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Why did you sell it as "game/team issued" instead of just "team issued" as you bought it?

Not trying to pick a fight but wasn't that a bit borderline deceptive too?

Good grief yeah, totally ignore the guy making false provenance claims and pick apart my choice of confusing wording...

I had no intention of deceit, but perhaps my ignorance of the subtle differences between those two seemingly interchangeable terms opens the door for confusion. I said something like "purchased directly from Royals Charities with a 0063 Cool Base Team/Game Issued tagging. Jersey shows no evidence of use by Billy, but is the same style and size jersey as used on the field." All I am trying to say is the jersey came from the team and is the same exact specifications and manufacture as a player used jersey. Frankly, I am not a real astute jersey collector, and I am not sure I am completely grasping the subtle differences between the two terms. Bottom line, it is the same type of jersey as he would wear on the field (size, tagging, etc), but he didn't use it and it certainly did not come from Billy Butler's neighbor who walks Billy's dog while Billy is on the road.

I apologize if you find my description deceitful, I can assure you its ignorance not intent.

[Neely8]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

I'll have to agree that this guy is shady. I don't know if he still has it but he was trying to sell what he claimed was a Louisville Bats Jay Bruce game worn jersey which I was told that is wasn't legit by the person who handles the Bats jersey.

[justinwc80]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

He had a fake Griffey jersey that I pointed out in a previous thread and asked me why it wasn't real, explained it to him and he still continued to list it. Reported him to ebay and nothing happened either.

[danny_0_6]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

It's funny you guys bring this guy up....a while back I bought a Vladamir Guerrero bat from a forum member with no paperwork... A few months later I sold it to thesofasurfer on eBay...he turned around and put it up on eBay stating he got it from a "clubhouse source" with a hand written LOA...it's a shame

[camarokids]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Why did you sell it as "game/team issued" instead of just "team issued" as you bought it?

Not trying to pick a fight but wasn't that a bit borderline deceptive too?

Not deceptive at all. He bought it from a Team Charity Event. Where did the charity get the jersey from? They either went through the team or player.

What exactly would be the difference between the two? Everything that is issued for a game comes from a team or player. Teams order the jerseys and bats, except for a few exceptions where the players order themselves. Players are given or buy items like fielding gloves and batting gloves.

So you could have player issued or team issued or game issued.

Also, player used, game used or team used pretty much all mean the same thing.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

Not deceptive at all. He bought it from a Team Charity Event. Where did the charity get the jersey from? They either went through the team or player.

What exactly would be the difference between the two? Everything that is issued for a game comes from a team or player. Teams order the jerseys and bats, except for a few exceptions where the players order themselves. Players are given or buy items like fielding gloves and batting gloves.

So you could have player issued or team issued or game issued.

Also, player used, game used or team used pretty much all mean the same thing.

Thank you for the explanation.
I don't collect jersey's so I am no expert on them.

CampWest,
I am sorry that I upset you so much. I hope you can the peace that you are looking for.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: ebay seller TheSofaSurfer + a Billy Butler issued + fake provenance

I hope you can find the peace you are looking for.

oops