6 charged with fraud

[nycpropain]

Finally, someone from the other side of the fence. It's great to have you here, it's lonely on this end!! I have been reading this entire thread, and I'm starting to lose sight of reality. I have also read somewhere in here that someone is now skeptical of photomatches, because they think that JO is now using photomatching sites to doctor jerseys???

I mean seriously...do some of you think that JO Sports Co receives boxes of game issued jerseys, and then proceeds to have a team of runners wear them to get them sweaty and smelly? And then have a group of people put on those same jerseys to go play football in the backyard, to give them ball marks, hit marks, grass, mud, and turf stains? Then once the game is over, everyone takes their "fabricated" game issued jerseys to a group of seamstresses who manufacture team repairs, and also add any further customizations for each specific player on the roster?

Clearly I'm being cynical...but do some of you really think that 100% of what is sold on the JO Sports website is fake?? And do you think that every equipment manager from each NFL team they have a contract with is in on the scam too? Seems like a hell of a lot of work in order to turn some game issued jerseys into game worn, no???

And does anyone even know the details of this case? Can anyone speak intelligently as to JO's involvment in this case? All that I have seen are people making insane accusations about how everything JO sells is fake, and that people don't put any faith in team LOA/COA's, or photomatches.

Let's use this example: Person A knows someone at a Card Company (Person C) who wants to buy a game worn jeresey in order to cut into pieces. Person B knows how to get in touch with Person C at the Card Company. Person A uses Person B as a middle man, and Person C at the Card Company gets what they think is a game worn jersey, cut it up into pieces and put into baseball cards. The jersey coming from Person A was a retail or game issued jersey. Person C thought it was game used. Person C cuts the jersey into pieces and sells is as a game worn insert. This scenario is entirely possible...but it doesn't seem to me like everything person B now touches should be considered fake, does it?

Just a few thoughts...now let the abuse begin!!!

Thats great YOU feel like that. But thankfully most wont. Once a scam artist always a scam artist. How many federal investigations and prosecutions does one need before opening a few eyes? I dont care if 99% of their items where real if they knowingly sold the 1%.

[SaintsGeaux]

If it was sold again as "game worn", after it was pointed out that a mistake was made, then yes, that is damning. I agree with you. Unfortunately I don't have a description of the relisted item that sold on EBay. But I hardly think that JO was trying to "scam" someone by putting the wrong description on a $200 jersey of a player that has played in 1 NFL game. I still think that buyers need to do their homework...if the jersey that you're thinking of buying, isn't even the same color as what was worn in that game, then maybe you should rethink your purchase. Perhaps speak to someone about it before you buy?

I'm sure you remember last year when Desean Jackson signed the wrong game and dates on the wrong jerseys? Even the guy who wore the jerseys didn't know what games they came from. He signed a white jersey from a game in which they wore green, and vice versa. People make errors.

There isn't much hope for you. You see mistakes and errors and singular occurrences.

This isn't murder where one event is the crime. This is fraud we are talking about. The FBI generally shows a wanton pattern of criminal intent, do you understand that? A pattern showing more than one occurence. They get enough to move forward and prove their case. They know the difference between honest mistakes and criminal intent. If they went through 5 years of transactions it would be extremely costly and labor intensive.

[slam]

How about this posting involving JO Sports. I always thought this was strange.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=44542

[solarlottry]

The entire situation sucks for all parties involved. It is a disaster for JO PR-wise all well as with regards to their partnerships. His livelihood and that of his employees and their families are in the process of being utterly destroyed.

It is a nightmare for US-the collector as we have spent thousands of $$$$ on what we believe are gamers, only to have seeds of doubt planted. With this hobby any degree of doubt or uncertainty can destroy a jersey, a dealer or a collection.

What i dont understand is why JO would knowingly create "fake gamers" when they have all the authentic gamers they can handle? With NFL teams sending them 99% of their GU jerseys and these shirts being sold for a profit, why screw it up? Obviously greed is an answer but it seems foolhardy to throw away years of hard work establishing JOsportsCO, only to lose it all over fakes and a few more $$$.

With regards to GU jerseys that were part of the team deals that were sold as GU but appeared GI, I am sure that this happens as teams have multiple shirts of each player. With players coming and going things can get mixed up or maybe the player wore it for one play or dressed but didnt play? The shirt would look new then but would be game used. Again it boils down to doing your own research and buying what YOU are confident in, no matter what the seller tells you it is.

I lost out on a beautiful 1994 Steve Young gamer because I didnt do enough homework, was too suspicious and sent it back. Well a few days later I found an exact photo-match but the shirt had been sold. I eventually found out that Panini had bought it and cut it up. Do your own research and buy what feels right and you most probably will not be disappointed.

When I bought my Bengals TO from JO it was labeled as "2010 season" but thru GUU we have photo-matched it to TO's 150th and 151st TD catches, made on MNF vs the Steelers. Would it not have benefited JO to have known this prior to selling it? The price difference between a "2010 season" vs "150th career TD MNF" would be huge. JO could have done the photo-match and figured this out but we did and got a great shirt for a great price. So it can go both ways.

I am sure everything will shake out as time passes. JO may not make it out of this intact but the GU hobby will go on, hopefully in a more honest and open forum. There will always be scoundrels out there as long as money is to be made but maybe this FBI indictment will make people think twice before trying to sell fakes.

Always buying 49ers gamers and any 1994 49er gamer!
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

I am sure everything will shake out in the end

[jhunt28]

There isn't much hope for you. You see mistakes and errors and singular occurrences.

This isn't murder where one event is the crime. This is fraud we are talking about. The FBI generally shows a wanton pattern of criminal intent, do you understand that? A pattern showing more than one occurence. They get enough to move forward and prove their case. They know the difference between honest mistakes and criminal intent. If they went through 5 years of transactions it would be extremely costly and labor intensive.

You are right again...there is no hope for me. Now onto the subject at hand...do you really think JO bought game issued jerseys, for lets say $150 each, and sold them as "misrepresented game worn jerseys" for $175? Who has ever heard of this Butler guy??? You would have to do this over 5,000 times in order to make any money...!! Again, NO ONE has any facts in this case. Show me facts...Show me why JO was named, WHEN, and in WHAT context. That's all. Showing me that a jersey of a player who didn't even play one full game in the NFL was mistakenly posted as "game worn", instead of "game issued" is nonsense.

[SaintsGeaux]

Hey the NFL and part of society forgave that piece of trash M.Vick and he murdered dogs!!! Are you Kidding me. And he was actually convicted! Everyone deserves a second chance except murderers,rapists, and pedophiles...

You just got me to fall out of my chair laughing. This dog murderer you talk about is on the Homepage of hour beloved JO Sports.

If you were trying to help JO, quit now as you just buried them.

[cubbs1232]

Actually that reminds me, i remember when a member had an issue with a Lesean McCoy eagles jersey that had the wrong inscription on it from last year, the jersey was from a different game than what the date written on it was. And I remember Jarrod coming on here and explaining what had happened and it was a mix up on Lesean's part because he was singing a few diff pieces at the same time, and he made it right... So ya see even players make mistakes, i know its hard to believe!!!

Easy for jo to blame it on mccoy as he can't defend himself on here.

Once a crook always a crook

[Gocong57]

How about this posting involving JO Sports. I always thought this was strange.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=44542

That must be some trunk of evidence, er, jerseys

[Ozric]

Going forward if you suspect something is not right with a piece that you see on there site, or anywhere else, call it to there attention, as people have done in the past, and the situation will be rectified asap. Ive made mention to Robert about some things i thought were issued at best, and he marked them down and accepted and appreciated the help for looking out. There is nothing that can be hidden if you research properly. The buyer and seller both have a responsibility to make it right when something is not right, you have to do your part and accept responsibility when your not on your game.

I collect Mike Nugent gear and would periodically check back with Robert to see if they obtained anything new. He advised that they did get a Jets jersey in from the 11/25/2010 game. I checked his stats and he was on the DL as of the previous game and was out for the rest of the season. I told Robert he could not have played during that game and to check to see if it was worn in an earlier game. He advised that Jarrod had it labeled as 11/25/2010 and not from an earlier game. I passed on it even though he offered it to me at nearly half of what he originally wanted for it (after I told him of the issue). Shortly after, it was listed on their site as game worn and was eventually sold as game worn through their auction site.

[cubbs1232]

Have you ever even bought a piece from JO??? I doubt it, probably just trying to stir the pot as usual i bet.

So if anyone hasn't purchased a jersey from them they can't comment, get real. They conjured crimes and get what they deserve