6 charged with fraud

[nickacs]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

So instead of insulting each other and hurting our own reputations, maybe we should just "Move along. Nothing to see here" until more information comes out. Just a humble suggestion.....

+10000...

I just find it kind of funny that it seems as long as some collectors can photo match their items they seem fine with the fact that this company apparently was doctoring other items to appear real and selling them as such. That is just stupidty on every level. How can you defend that type of business practice.

Huh? Um, actually your very ignorant. Sure, I can photomatch my 2 JO game worn jerseys, but doesn't mean I LOVE JO and am "on their side". Sure, it hurts to hear the news of them being mixed up in this fraud case and certainly do not condone any such actions. Will I be buying from them in the future? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think they "doctored" my 2 jersey with the grass/hit stains? F no! Great real. There's no way in hell anyone in the world could get the EXACT same stains/color/marks in the EXACT same spot that my jerseys are photomatched to Getty images and the original HD football games they were used in last year.

[MarkakisMania]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

+10000...



Huh? Um, actually your very ignorant. Sure, I can photomatch my 2 JO game worn jerseys, but doesn't mean I LOVE JO and am "on their side". Sure, it hurts to hear the news of them being mixed up in this fraud case and certainly do not condone any such actions. Will I be buying from them in the future? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think they "doctored" my 2 jersey with the grass/hit stains? F no! Great real. There's no way in hell anyone in the world could get the EXACT same stains/color/marks in the EXACT same spot that my jerseys are photomatched to Getty images and the original HD football games they were used in last year.

If the statement did not apply to you then don't worry about it. Several posters already stated that they had zero problem with this company even if they admitted in a court of law that they doctored jersey's as long as they could photo match them for their collections they would keep buying.

How exactly I am ignorant??? I think that statement says it all. Basically screw everyone else as long as I get what I want I don't care about the ethics of the company selling the product and what they do to others or how they harm the industry. If anything is ignorant it is that mentality, not my statement.

Jeb

[MarkakisMania]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

+10000...



Huh? Um, actually your very ignorant. Sure, I can photomatch my 2 JO game worn jerseys, but doesn't mean I LOVE JO and am "on their side". Sure, it hurts to hear the news of them being mixed up in this fraud case and certainly do not condone any such actions. Will I be buying from them in the future? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think they "doctored" my 2 jersey with the grass/hit stains? F no! Great real. There's no way in hell anyone in the world could get the EXACT same stains/color/marks in the EXACT same spot that my jerseys are photomatched to Getty images and the original HD football games they were used in last year.

I am also not in any way suggesting that a photo matched jersey that you or any other collector has is forged. If it is photo matched then it is photo matched. We have however seen several questionable examples on this thread of jersey's that were clearly not photo matched for whatever reason and questionable business practices by this company to say the least.

I don't believe that anyone is in any way questioning that this company has sold a number of legit jersey's. As I said before one of the oldest tricks in the book in this business is mix in 10% bad with 90% good inventory and generally you will stay in business for a long time. It has happened for years or whatever the percentage is. I am in no way questioning the legitimacy of any photomatched jersey by you or any other person who has purchased from this company at any point and time. What I am questioning is the other various problems raised by say a federal indictment and questions raised by other people who have posted on this same thread that have purchased from this company and then had issues raised and seemingly nothing done about it.

Jeb

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

If I decide a company is willing to lie about a item and then steal from my fellow man by selling said item to them then I am done with them.

There is no maybe or maybe not in mind about a company that will harm others for a profit. That company is stained forever in my mind.

I have even less respect for someone who will do business with that company just for the sake of procuring a material object.

There was a time when children were taught about good and evil.

[xpress34]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I'm thinking we form an 'Occupy GUU' movement until we get answers on JO, Mitch and the others....

[mad87man]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I am sorry but if a team sends JO let's say 20 jerseys, JO should make sure A. those 20 players played in the game and B. if everything checks out.
People say do your homework and check things before you buy them, i am sorry but when i spend over 500$ on a jersey i expect A. the company is selling me what i paid for(a game used jersey) and B. they did the work and made sure it checks out.

I am not defending JO sports or crucifying them until i get the whole story. My feeling on them is neither good or bad even though i kind of have a bad taste about the people that got taken.

[ChuckFoPrez]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I made sure of that by doing the necessary legwork to insure that.
If you were dumb enough to get taken, it's on you.
I sleep like a baby, bet on that.

*DINGDINGDING*

[jppopma]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

So after all of these post, I see that there is a big split. Of course those who have purchased from JO will be more likely to support them (even if their items have been photomatched, a worthless LOA will always hurt the item).

Yet I have never purchased anything from them, so I guess I must not be allowed to "know" if they are guilty or not. I'm sure that they will all be able to explain the little mistakes to the feds and it will all be cleared up in a week...

Come to think of it, I never invested directly with Madoff......so I am not allowed to say he was guilty either.

As for Barry making a statement; I did not see that as a classless infomercial for his company. Through the darkness that this whole thing has placed on our hobby, I think it was a nice affirmation that there is still some hope out there for our jerseys and our collections.


***Sorry for all of the paragraphs...including it on one post rather than 10...not cutting and pasting and legal definitions to show my intelligence (of cutting and pasting)...using sarcasm...or hurting anybodies feelings.

[CollectGU]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

thats funny as hell hope we are'nt too "modern", this thread is way too serious

One more scuff for us, don't mess around
We just wanna see, just scuff it now,
Now it's game ready!

Party rock is in the house tonight!

....its just too heavy in here!

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Will we ever get THE press release or some inside insights from Mr. Cavalier?

Hello Michael,

Unfortunately, I do not have any "inside insights" on this matter. As I mentioned previously, I was told by JO Sports that they would be issuing a press release which may help answer many of the questions that are being posted here. I do not know when the release will actually take place and I am waiting to see the release just like the other members on this board.

I will say that it is my understanding that the alleged charges stem from issues prior to JO Sports starting his team deals. In fact, it is my understanding that JO started the team deals to try get legitimate merchandise directly rather than dealing with the so-called "sources" referenced in articles. That is my understanding but I will also be waiting for the press release to see if that is correct. Personally, I think it is important to let JO make any statements at this point rather than speculating like some of the other members are doing.

Notably, GUU will remain available as a forum for Jarrod to respond. Further, GUU has always stood for honesty and integrity and remains committed to doing so going forward. This is also the case with the 8D Network and 8D Auctions which I am involved with as well.

There's not much more to say at this time as we, like you, await further clarification from all involved.

Sincerely,
Chris

[legaleagle92481]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

If I decide a company is willing to lie about a item and then steal from my fellow man by selling said item to them then I am done with them.

There is no maybe or maybe not in mind about a company that will harm others for a profit. That company is stained forever in my mind.

I have even less respect for someone who will do business with that company just for the sake of procuring a material object.

There was a time when children were taught about good and evil.

Well said. My thoughts exactly. I bought over a dozen jerseys directly from them or that originated from them but in the future I will buy nothing from them even if it means going without an item that I would want in my collection. I was going to make several more purchases from them before I learned about this but now that is off the table and I am taking my business elsewhere.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

[quote=xpress34;272270]The above is a post I mad EARLY in this thread referring to Mitch Schumacher...

At the risk of being slammed from either side, I am going to voice my opinion - like it or not, it is still my opinion and I am entitled to it like everyone else.

1st, I am a BASEBALL guy and I have NEVER had any dealings with JO so I have no dog in this fight.

2nd, Does that mean I should 'Shut the F&$ Up as someone else mentioned? NO. Why? Because whether I deal with this outfit or someone else, fraud and deception is BAD for our hobby period.

3rd, Those who are 'Okay with whatever JO has done as long as their stuff is okay'... That's a bit of small minded thinking and I'll explain that statement further down that might make you reconsider your position.

4th, This isn't a wait and see what JO is charged with - this is a what did they admit to doing as theirs is a CRIMINAL INFORMATION meaning they have admitted that there is enough going forward for the prosecution to make a case, so they are copping a plea to hep their cause.

Let me restate another post I made earlier in this thread for JO's website:



If they are pleading out to the charges stated, then the above statements are bold faced LIES and deceitful business practices.



The four charged by information with mail fraud, indicating they may have already reached a plea agreement with prosecutors, were:

BERNARD GERNAY, a resident of New Jersey, involved in the business operations of Pro Sports Investments, Inc., a New Jersey business;

BRADLEY HORNE, a South Carolina resident, involved in the business operations of Authentic Sports Memorabilia, Inc., a South Carolina business;

JARROD OLDRIDGE, a resident of Nevada, involved in business operations of JO Sports, Inc., a Nevada business; and,

MITCHELL SCHUMACHER, a resident of Wisconsin, using the trade name MS Sports.



If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times... in this industry/hobby, all you have ultimately is your reputation. Once it's tarnished, you can't just 'buff' it back up...

Now, to my comment about 'small minded thinking' and how stuff like this is bad for our hobby - even for you guys that have 'photo matched' items from JO.

So some of you are 'Okay with whatever happened' as long as your stuff is good. You can think it's up to everyone else to 'do their homework, but I would venture a guess that when you 1st got into this hobby, you didn't know much and had to learn through trial and error and talking to others. Their are more people joining this hobby all the time and each of them have to start like each of us, by learning what's going on.

So, JO does some 'magic' to make a jersey of Player X appear GU and sells it as such to newbie collector A. You think you're okay because YOUR Player X jersey is Photo Matched and you don't care if newbie collector A gets screwed. So newbie B, C, D, etc all get screwed for more of the same fake Player X jersey. All from the same source. Now, there are MULTIPLE 'GU' Player X jerseys on the market - you don't know the others are fake because the seller hasn't been busted yet. Those MULTIPLE GU jerseys mean yours is worth LESS because of the saturated market.

Now the seller gets busted and the Fakes start popping out of the woodwork. You feel comfortable that YOUR jersey is fine because of the photo match... but is it? Because of the charges on the fake jerseys, no one wants to touch your jersey with a ten foot pole, so again your jersey has lost value.

This is a LOSE-LOSE situation for the current jersey holders, but Ultimately a WIN for the hobby if it exposes and removes more fake jerseys from the hobby.

By not caring about the 'other' jerseys they 'created', you ultimately don't care about the hobby as a whole - only your own little collection - and that isn't healthy for the hobby.

When fraud, deceit and deception raise their ugly head, EVERYONE needs to be involved and concerned about calling it out and cleaning it up.

I'll give you an analogy - I use to work in Loss Prevention for Nike - base on my former profession. As a Loss Prevention agent, it was my job to prevent theft (internal and external - shop lifting) and keep our shrink down. Many stores don't care about Loss Prevention and it's bad for their patrons just like this fraud is bad for the hobby. Why? Because they pass the LOSSES onto you as a patron by raising prices by a penny here and a penny there. When we let Fraud run rampant in our hobby, we ruin the value, the trust, etc and ultimately end up paying more to verify legitimacy of the items in question.

When statements are made by members that they can afford the best and can afford the photo matching, etc and 'too bad' for those that can't - they end up sounding like elitist snobs.

Sorry for the long rant, but it's my .02 and the LAW (The U.S. Constitution) says I'm entitled to it. (oh yeah, and my Right to FREE Speech).

- Smitty

Very well said Chris.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

agreed 100%

Just curious but what do you guys do about washed jerseys or jerseys that have no distinctive markings on them. Do you have an QB or kicker jerseys? Those jerseys are known for not showing much wear as these players go through games where they never get knocked off their feet or block or otherwise come in contact with opposing players or the ground. I have QB jerseys that are completely clean in fact that would be impossible to photomatch. What about NBA jerseys? Some stars wear two jerseys a game, good luck photomatching those. Buying only what you can photomatch limits your collection.

[34swtns]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Just curious but what do you guys do about washed jerseys or jerseys that have no distinctive markings on them. Do you have an QB or kicker jerseys? Those jerseys are known for not showing much wear as these players go through games where they never get knocked off their feet or block or otherwise come in contact with opposing players or the ground. I have QB jerseys that are completely clean in fact that would be impossible to photomatch. What about NBA jerseys? Some stars wear two jerseys a game, good luck photomatching those. Buying only what you can photomatch limits your collection.

Easy......don't buy 'em.

I'll say it again...........no match = no buy. Very simple.

And yes it does "limit my collection". It keeps my collection free of the crap that some uneducated schmuck might buy on a gamble.
I only "gamble" on a sure thing.

[masp3392]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Just curious but what do you guys do about washed jerseys or jerseys that have no distinctive markings on them. Do you have an QB or kicker jerseys? Those jerseys are known for not showing much wear as these players go through games where they never get knocked off their feet or block or otherwise come in contact with opposing players or the ground. I have QB jerseys that are completely clean in fact that would be impossible to photomatch. What about NBA jerseys? Some stars wear two jerseys a game, good luck photomatching those. Buying only what you can photomatch limits your collection.

exactly, like what 34swtns said, if i cant photomatch it, or if the jersey is in "question" as to wether or not its actually game used, or if i cant photomatch it. I simply bite the bullet and dont buy it!

I understand some of the points from other posters stating that if an item costs that much you would expect the company to have already done the homework in matching it, making sure its compatible with the dates expressed ... etc. But regardless of all that is it up to you, to make sure what your buying is legit regardless of price. Yes you go on reputation but even if JO was absolutely as clean as a whistle, I wouldnt go based of reputation, i would still do my homework as a safety net just in case.