6 charged with fraud

[G1X]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Not meaning to get off track here, but the "photo-matching" issue keeps rearing its ugly head in this thread. I always say, each to their own in the comfort level and parameters they set for themselves in collecting game-used items, but to say that "photo matching" should be a rule of thumb for collectors is simply not realistic or feasible for anyone who collects uniforms worn prior to the 21st century. Finding an exact "photo match" of these items is very difficult for a variety of reasons ranging from less available media resources (Getty Images, television coverage, etc.) to the fact that uniforms were worn in multiple games and were washed after each game. Unwashed jerseys were almost unheard of until recently.

If collectors were depending on photo matches of these older items, they would not have much of a collection. Many of these collectors depend on reference material such as programs, yearbooks, newspaper photos, game film, etc., to research for "style matches" on the items they collect as it is nearly impossible to find an exact "photo match" on these older items. In addition to reference material, these collectors depend on communicating with other collectors who have similar interests or knowledge in these areas, viewing the collections of others in the hobby, sorting through the inventory of dealers when possible (at The National or other collector shows, visiting their facilities, etc.), and any other resources that are available.

Again, my apologies for getting off track, but it I felt that it was important to point this out, especially to the newer collectors who might feel that photo matching and letters of authenticity (another discussion for another day) are an automatic requirement before considering a purchase. By far, the majority of legitimate items in this hobby cannot be photo-matched. If you don't feel comfortable without a photo-match (or not having a piece of paper telling you that it's real) that's your prerogative, but you will be missing out on many fine jerseys such as my nice Bears durene jerseys when it comes time for me to sell my collection

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[otismalibu]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

to say that "photo matching" should be a rule of thumb for collectors is simply not realistic or feasible for anyone who collects uniforms worn prior to the 21st century.

+1

[frikativ54]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

If all the holier-than-thou's here stopped doing business with every dealer who's ever had an issue and returned everything they've bought from every dealer without a spotless record, your collections would be limited to a couple of items.......maybe.

But you would have that awesome "clear conscience" that's so fun to show off to your friends!

We're not talking about "an issue" or dealers who don't have "a spotless record" because of maybe a few bad items they didn't know they sold. Rather, we are talking about deliberate misrepresentation and fraud. That's the issue here.

I don't do business with people I know who have deliberately faked and misrepresented game used. As I have said before, it could be my holy grail, but I'd rather sleep with the peace of mind knowing that I have bought from honest companies.

You know, there are times when I have missed out on something; I know this for a fact. But in the end, I would rather show off a clear conscience and good ethics to my friends than used clothing I may not know is even genuine.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Still sleep........like a baby.

Like I said, you have to assume anybody can get taken, you just have to educate yourself enough to make sure it's not you. Assume every seller is fallible, do your legwork, and you won't get had.

If all the holier-than-thou's here stopped doing business with every dealer who's ever had an issue and returned everything they've bought from every dealer without a spotless record, your collections would be limited to a couple of items.......maybe.

But you would have that awesome "clear conscience" that's so fun to show off to your friends!

I don't show off my "clear conscience" to anyone. I don't even have a clear conscience because I sin everyday.

BUT you don't have to keep showing off your "I don't care if others get ripped off" attitude to all of us. We get it.

[cubbs1232]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

so i was just buying a couple hugo boss jackets at saks 5th ave and while checking out i asked the sales associate how do i know these are real and not knockoffs, he looked at me like i was a jackass and asked me if i was serious and i said yea. he then explained to me "sir this is saks 5th ave we dont sell knockoffs" i again asked him "how do i know these are real" his response "we have a reputation to uphold, we sell high-end fashion so why would we risk that to buy and resell knockoffs? If we did that and someone found out our relataionships with customers and designers would be over and saks would be no more."

ummm....

[Dewey2007]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

You should have asked him if he had photomatches for the jackets or if they came with a COA signed by Hugo Boss :-)

so i was just buying a couple hugo boss jackets at saks 5th ave and while checking out i asked the sales associate how do i know these are real and not knockoffs, he looked at me like i was a jackass and asked me if i was serious and i said yea. he then explained to me "sir this is saks 5th ave we dont sell knockoffs" i again asked him "how do i know these are real" his response "we have a reputation to uphold, we sell high-end fashion so why would we risk that to buy and resell knockoffs? If we did that and someone found out our relataionships with customers and designers would be over and saks would be no more."

ummm....

[Lokee]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

You should have asked him if he had photomatches for the jackets or if they came with a COA signed by Hugo Boss :-)

LMAO best reply post so far.

[cubbs1232]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

You should have asked him if he had photomatches for the jackets or if they came with a COA signed by Hugo Boss :-)

If I post high res photos of them can anyone match them for me please?

[Lokee]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Well sir it looks like that loose thread by the upper arm seam matches this one here in the autumn catalog.

[masp3392]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

so i was just buying a couple hugo boss jackets at saks 5th ave and while checking out i asked the sales associate how do i know these are real and not knockoffs, he looked at me like i was a jackass and asked me if i was serious and i said yea. he then explained to me "sir this is saks 5th ave we dont sell knockoffs" i again asked him "how do i know these are real" his response "we have a reputation to uphold, we sell high-end fashion so why would we risk that to buy and resell knockoffs? If we did that and someone found out our relataionships with customers and designers would be over and saks would be no more."

ummm....

So now we've resorted to making fun of other posters who are merely stating their opinion. Even if you don't like what the other poster has said it is that of an opinion which is entitled to everyone on this board. We are all collectors on all different levels, with all different views on things. Just because someone else's opinion doesn't match yours, doesn't give you the right to make fun.

Just my 2 cents ...

[cubbs1232]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

So now we've resorted to making fun of other posters who are merely stating their opinion. Even if you don't like what the other poster has said it is that of an opinion which is entitled to everyone on this board. We are all collectors on all different levels, with all different views on things. Just because someone else's opinion doesn't match yours, doesn't give you the right to make fun.

Just my 2 cents ...

Where exactly did I make fun of someone?

[masp3392]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Where exactly did I make fun of someone?

your message was obviously geared towards those who regardless of what happens will stick with buying JO jerseys and/or care about photomatching being the standard that everyone should follow regardless or price or reputation.

just interpreting what I read, if it isn't your intention, i apologize but definitly sounded like your poking fun at others who feel differently

[Jules9]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

I understand everyone saying I found a photo match so I know the jersey is good but what if some of the wear on the matched jersey has been manufactured or "enhanced" on the jersey to make it stand out better. If you question wear from a jersey to a photo you can always say that it looks different because of the lighting differences of when the photo was taken.

Also if there is wear on a jersey that can't be photo matched but other marks can be matched, how do you know if it is legit wear.

If all these allegations turn out to be true, then you truly have to question any JO jersey whether it's photo matched or not.

Do I think they may have added wear to every jersey, no, but it does cast some doubt onto their jerseys if true.

Now let me go inspect my JO jersey a little better.

[xpress34]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

Gotta love how words get twisted and turned on here from the other side...
So know where comparing this to a standard jacket ran off an assembly line? LOL, to all the jacket collectors out there good luck. And by the way there are small inconsistencies in tags and design when you compare a real piece compared to a fake piece, whether it be sunglasses,watch,designer accessories like that, so in actuality yeah its basically the same concept to photo matching, you are comparing real to fake by seeing it in person next to each other or pics of know legit samples compared to Asian knock offs. Wow you people like to go in circles, and the results are still the same... No actual proof or knowledge of what,when and where happened, but are still willing to be the corner stone of being part of the group that tries to bring an innocent until proven guilty company to its knees! I hope you will all be able to sleep at night on your pillow of doubt??? Know one here know the truth accept J.O, so until that comes out from him or the court, why don't we stop ASS-uming and wait to see what happens instead of speculating and hurting this companies rep... Deer eating popcorn! whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Pale -

Apparently you either don't understand or are closing your eyes to the fact that JO was charged with a Criminal Information.

That means that instead of making the Prosecutor take him to a Grand Jury and prove that he did something wrong, he IS making a Plea Agreement with the Prosecution because he has already admitted to them that they have more than enough to get an Indictment in front of a Grand Jury.

Innocent until proven Guilty has NO bearing here. They have ADMITTED some type of wrong doing to the Prosecutors based on the information at hand.

This isn't 'twisting' anything... this is a statement of FACT based on the information that has been published if you actually cared to read it.

And as far as an assembly line? How do you think even game worn jerseys are made? Do you think they are each hand sewn and such?

No, they make the jerseys in bulk to the player specs.

But I digress.

All I know is JO and others (4 of the 6) are making pleas. Only 2 of the 6 are forcing a Grand Jury hearing meaning those 2 (and JO is NOT one of them) don't believe the prosecutors have enough to get an Indictment.

- Smitty

P.S. As a Disabled Vet and former Loss Prevention Officer, I sleep MUCH better at night when I know that frauds and crooks are getting busted. The fact they are making a plea leaves NO DOUBT in my mind. This is a Federal Charge, not someone on GUU claiming they are getting screwed.

[xpress34]

Re: 6 charged with fraud

And as far as an assembly line? How do you think even game worn jerseys are made? Do you think they are each hand sewn and such?

No, they make the jerseys in bulk to the player specs.

But I digress.

Oh, BTW - for those that think I don't know what I'm talking about here, I also use to work for both NIKE and RAWLINGS and I'm pretty certain that Uniform Manufacturing hasn't changed much since 2007.

Smitty