'89 Brett Butler World Series uni - if the auto is fake, what hope is there for the uni?

[sox83cubs84]

Actually, the jersey looks like it may be the real deal. Everything that should be there is, down to the Giamatti armband worn in the World Series. If I had the $$$ to spare I'd bid. I can't comment on the autograph though.

Dave Miedema

[TNP777]

Actually, the jersey looks like it may be the real deal. Everything that should be there is, down to the Giamatti armband worn in the World Series. If I had the $$$ to spare I'd bid. I can't comment on the autograph though.

Dave Miedema

Dave, that was about to be one of my next questions - the legitimacy of the jersey itself. A friend of mine thinks it is, but is concerned about two things:

* beneath the Rawlings tag, what does 89 2 mean. I assume the 89 is the issue year, but what is the "2"? Does it denote a team-issued jersey, rather than actual game worn?

* the seller has a LOA from a man in West Virginia stating that the autograph is real, which it is definitely not - there is no question in my mind about that. What is missing is any kind of provenance from Dick Dobbins, who used to handle all of the Giants clubhouse stuff back then.

* another question I have is whether or not that autograph can be safely removed without permanently damaging the jersey. Even if the auto were legit, it's placement really detracts from the jersey's appearance. I'd love some opinions on that.

Thanks!

Geordie

[dcgreg25]

One of the auction houses had a Butler road WS jersey for sale recently that I looked at but also had questions about. The best way to try and match it up is to look at images from the 1989 WS specifically with the thick arm band on the left arm of the jersey vs the one in the images from the game:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/88...y-Images-Sport

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/88...y-Images-Sport

The spacing below the large thick arm band seems different. Take a look at the links and decide for yourself.

[mbrieve]

I am not a Giants expert or Brett Butler expert, but based off the additional examples of Butler's autograph, I wouldn't completely discount the authenticity of the signature. Jersey material isn't exactly the easiest surface to sign and who knows if he was handed the jersey without a flat, hard surface behind it. There are a number of similarities with the signature, that if the jersey was legit, I would give more credence to the legitimacy of the signature.

This is a prime example of why I would never get a game used jersey signed...

[sox83cubs84]

[quote=TNP777;272754]Dave, that was about to be one of my next questions - the legitimacy of the jersey itself. A friend of mine thinks it is, but is concerned about two things:

* beneath the Rawlings tag, what does 89 2 mean. I assume the 89 is the issue year, but what is the "2"? Does it denote a team-issued jersey, rather than actual game worn?

* the seller has a LOA from a man in West Virginia stating that the autograph is real, which it is definitely not - there is no question in my mind about that. What is missing is any kind of provenance from Dick Dobbins, who used to handle all of the Giants clubhouse stuff back then.

* another question I have is whether or not that autograph can be safely removed without permanently damaging the jersey. Even if the auto were legit, it's placement really detracts from the jersey's appearance. I'd love some opinions on that.

Thanks!

Geordie[/quote)

While I can't answer the last question, I can resolve the first two:

1) The "2" on the strip tag is Butler's uniform number. The Giants used those on strip tags instead of set numbers on the majority of jerseys they wore from 1977-91.

2) The team stamp in the tail was affixed by Dobbins, and matches the dozens of examples I have seen and recorded over the years.

I hope that helps and comforts you some.

Dave Miedema

[lon lewis]

Since a number of individuals have contacted me about this jersey I thought I'd post my findings here and hopefully save some time.

After viewing the tapes from game 1&2 of the '89 World series and what photos are available to me, I can say that this is NOT the jersey worn by Brett Butler in either game 1 or 2

The "Battle of the Bay" patch is in the wrong location- it should have the bottom point centered on the "Rawlings" logo as all of the other Giants patches are. ( the A's had theirs offset to the back of the "R" in Rawlings. There is not as much of the white background on the patch as there should be which suggests that this may be a retail patch. Butler had a standard Rawlings NOB complete with "serged" edges. The offered jersey has a Nob made up at McAdams Sports. The 2 on the offered jersey appears to be off center. both the mfr tag and the strip tag.

Those are just a few of the "red flags" on this jersey.

In my opinion based on the photos offered on ebay, the jersey is either the second jersey used for pre game that was originally without the patch or a totally fabricated product. I would need to see the jersey in person in order to figure out which of the above it is.

Finally,you will notice that the LOA ( which isn't from Dobbins) covers the autograph and doesn't cover the autheticity of the jersy except to describe the jersey's tagging ect.

[trsent]

Dang it, now I have to cancel my snipe.

Thanks for the information, Lon.

[TNP777]

yes, Lon - thanks very much for the fantastic information. I was leaning towards not going after the jersey simply because of the bogus auto - even if legit, it's location is not very desirable.

I'm glad this forum exists - I appreciate those who have helped a new guy.

[TNP777]

I don't know if anyone that posted in or looked at this thread tracked this jersey until it ended, but someone sure thought it was real. Ended over $500.