Pete Rose 1983 Expos Gamer

[hblakewolf]

Forum readers-

As a huge Philadelphia Phillies jersey collector, I consider my game worn 1983 home and road Pete Rose jerseys two of the best in the hobby. They show tons of use, and are PERFECT in every detail. Not only were they worn for the regular season, but also for the 1983 World Series. I have a photo match of Rose wearing my home jersey in the post season against the Orioles. I could swear that Rose was with the Phillies for the entire regular and post season, however, now have my doubts after seeing the following on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Pete-Rose-M...QQcmdZViewItem

The scary part to the sellers description is the fact that he mentions I have had this jersey appraised by Grey Flannel and valued at US$4000-US$5000.

Someone, please....stop the insanity!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Forum readers-

As a huge Philadelphia Phillies jersey collector, I consider my game worn 1983 home and road Pete Rose jerseys two of the best in the hobby. They show tons of use, and are PERFECT in every detail. Not only were they worn for the regular season, but also for the 1983 World Series. I have a photo match of Rose wearing my home jersey in the post season against the Orioles. I could swear that Rose was with the Phillies for the entire regular and post season, however, now have my doubts after seeing the following on Ebay:

The scary part to the sellers description is the fact that he mentions I have had this jersey appraised by Grey Flannel and valued at US$4000-US$5000.

Someone, please....stop the insanity!

Howard, isn't it common for teams to re-use a 1983 jersey in 1984? Couldn't they have used a 1983 blank for Pete Rose's brief tenure with the team in 1984? The guy's story appears good, I do not know if the jersey is tagged correctly, but this is not my expertise.

I think it is unfair that you jump on Grey Flannel at any opportunity you get. The auction doesn't once mention that Grey Flannel authenticated the jersey. It just states that they helped place a value on the jersey.

By the way, I did email the seller asking him about the tagging.

[trsent]

By the way, I did email the seller asking him about the tagging.

The seller and I have exchanged a few emails this morning. He is available if anyone else has any questions.

[hblakewolf]

Joel-
Indeed it is common for teams to "re-use" jerseys, however, it's a bit difficult to believe that the jersey in question could have been "re-issued" to Rose for a few reasons:
1. Check the size. It is a 42. Rose was wearing a size 43 with the Reds and a 44 with the Phillies.
2. Rose was signed by the Expos on January 20th, 1984. The first regular season game starts in April. The Expos did not wear their game jerseys in spring training, 1984. Given these facts, do you actually believe the Expos would drag out a previous seasons jersey and letter it up locally for Pete Rose?

Be it Grey Flannel, Mastro or MEARS, how can one estimate a price on a jersey with such questionable issues? Just being tagged from 1983 should send up a red flag, let alone the small size.

The seller emailed me with the following, which further addresses the authentication:
Yes you are right I made the revision to my auction. Thanks for the clarification, I am not much of a ball fan, and entered the wrong year by mistake. He used this item in 1984. Again, it was authenticated by Grey Flannel, let me know if you would like to make an offer on it.
Regards,
Morry Barmak
COLLECTOR STUDIO - Motorsport Gallery
136 Yorkville Ave.
Toronto, ON, M5R1C2, Canada

Joel, in conclusion, I could accept this jersey at face value if it was worn by a rookie, call up or scrub in 1984 such as Ron Johnson, but Pete Rose? I would have a tough time adding this to my Rose jersey collection based on the above.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Howard, points well made.

I just find that Grey Flannel estimating a value based on photos the seller emailed them and Grey Flannel authenticating the jersey is a whole different ball-game.

Needless to say, in my emails with the seller, he made it clear they offered the jersey to Grey Flannel, and they asked him to send the jersey in for their next auction and so they could inspect the jersey. They told him what they felt the jersey was worth, and that was all. The seller doesn't understand that his jersey is not authenticated until they inspect it in person.

I just would assume the story behind the jersey true until proved otherwise. I would also assume the possibility that The Expos used jerseys that were left as blanks from the previous year as back in those times that would not be unreasonable.

In fact, I would bet they didn't even look at the year tag inside a jersey to determine if it should be used by any player. A jersey is a jersey.

Now, your discussion of the size does raise some questions, as Pete was not getting any smaller in those days...

[trsent]

Ok, here is the latest email about the jersey right from the seller:

"I did a little research and it turns out this particular jersey I own was given to Pete Rose on Jan.20, 1984 when he signed with the Expos. At the time, there were no new 1984 jerseys made as they don't make the new batch until the season starts several months later. Therefore, they gave Rose a 1983 jersey which was modified and measured to his size. He wore it at the press conference (I have pix of this in the Jan.21/84 Montreal Gazette) and then later on during spring training and in the season. That is why the jersey is labelled 'set 1, 1983' but from the 1984 MLB season.

There have already been several offers from serious collectors, please let me know if you would like to make one.

Regards,

Morry Barmak

COLLECTOR STUDIO - Motorsport Gallery
136 Yorkville Ave.
Toronto, ON, M5R1C2, Canada
tel/fax: 416.975.5442
http://www.collectorstudio.com "

[hblakewolf]

Joel-
I received the exact same email.

The information provided in it is fictional at best:

The size 42 jersey was "modified and measured to his size"?

Likewise, the seller indicates Rose used it during his press conference, then wore this exact jersey at spring training and then into the 1984 season. Give me a break! Not only did the Expos wear batting practice jerseys during spring training, but you mean to tell me that the team ordered 1984 jerseys for the season and had Rose wearing a previous seasons jersey that he also used during spring training? Where did the seller obtain this key information from? Interesting is was never disclosed in the original post.

As I always say, do your homework. In this case, I give the seller an A+ for crative writing 101.

Hward Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net