AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Eric, while as much as much as I would love Mr. Rast to answer the phone at AMI, their silence to me almost 96 hours ago SPEAKS VOLUMES!

I love that my KNOWLEDGE (I'm not on AMI's payroll) has changed their auction description. I haven't received a dime nor a thank you!

Dave O'Brien (Collect GU) where are you??? ..............I'd love to hear from Ron F. as well Obviously, I've given up on Rocco or Mr. Rast...

The facts are on my side, please tell me what you know....

Bill
whhp72@yahoo.com

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

bill,

there are a few possibilities here.

one possibility is that orioles received a blank spare in 1976 and didn't use it until 1977 when they had it numbered and lettered. in this case, the jersey would be labeled as a 1976 and martinez's name and 1977 number 30 would all be original, unaltered with no ghost stitching. i've seen clubs order spares and not use them until the following year.

the second possibility is, according to ami, that the jersey was carried over from 1976 to 1977. this implies that the jersey was first worn by either holtzman or pagan in 1976 and then given to martinez in 1977. i believe the lack of a nameplate may indicate that, during 1976/77, the orioles weren't fond of re-using jerseys as the lack of a nameplate makes it substantially more difficult to remove nobs. if re-using jerseys was their common practice, then you'd think they'd order jerseys with nameplates.

for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume the orioles re-used jerseys during those years. if the jersey was carried over from holtzman or pagan to martinez, then you'd have to see evidence of a name change. it would be very unlikely to strip off a directly sewn name like holtzman and then affix d.martinez and not be able to see evidence of the prior name. you said that the original seller indicated it was all original and unaltered. if that's the case, then how was the jersey carried over from holtzman/pagan? secondly, the ami description makes no mention of evidence of a name change.

if everything is original and unaltered, then a carryover seems impossible. i think a far more likely explanation is that the jersey was a 1976 blank spare that was lettered and numbered in 1977 when martinez joined the team. that would explain the tag, the number 30, and the fact that everything is original and unaltered.

p.s. i don't think it's realistic to expect kieta to have done this legwork. her "vast hollywood connections" probably keep her overwhelmingly busy.
you don't get an impressive imdb profile like this http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0452662/ by sitting around researching 1976 orioles jerseys.


rudy.

[CollectGU]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Bill,

You asked me to chime in. It looks like they made an error in the description and then corrected it based on your e-mail and/or your post. Personally I think that is the responsible thing to do, and I don't see a problem with that. If you want credit, what don't you call them and ask why they didn't thank you...I have no idea why you felt you needed to take a swipe at Ron F. as he has nothing to do with this....

Dave

[stkmtimo]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Speaking of Kieta, what's her last name? Rudy, the imdb profile is a classic. The Full House credentials really make her legit.

Tim

[hblakewolf]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Tim-
It appears you are a real novice to Hollywood scene and possibly the National Enquirer.

In this day and age, who's not familiar with the likes of the ultra famous "one name stars" such as of Cher, Charo, Fabio, Madonna, Lassie, and of course Kieta!

Really.........

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Oil Can Dan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Bill,

You asked me to chime in. It looks like they made an error in the description and then corrected it based on your e-mail and/or your post. Personally I think that is the responsible thing to do, and I don't see a problem with that. If you want credit, what don't you call them and ask why they didn't thank you...I have no idea why you felt you needed to take a swipe at Ron F. as he has nothing to do with this....

Dave

Personally, I think the responsible thing to do is to spend enough time researching the items you're putting your name behind to get it right the first time. How much time & effort would have been required for them to have gotten it right? And why does it take four days for them to correct the error of their ways?

And by the way, just where did they get that Dennis Martinez made his debut in May? That isn't a true statement for 1976, 1977, 1978 or 1979. I can't see where that statement could possibly have come from except from 100% thin air. To me that's the most interesting aspect of this mess - just where exactly did that come from?

[Eric]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Seriously, no joke. Let's put the system to the test. Please ask that question about the where the authenticator came up with the may debut to ami to pass along to lou. I would love to know the answer.

Do the experiment right and let's see how long it takes to get an actual answer.

Eric

[Oil Can Dan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

The language about the May debut has been removed. I suspect we're never going to know where that came from, and the door is open for the "geez they made a simple mistake and corrected it" crowd. Oh well.

[Eric]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

I don't say "oh well." These people can curse us out and tell us to "get a life" but at the end of the day they have to listen. Nice work everyone.
Now (at least with this lot) someone's not going to pay good money for something that isn't as authenticated.
Eric

[ryan4fregosi]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

I've just had my first look at this Martinez "Gamer", and it's awful. It looks like a hastily tossed-up leftover.

The name on back as well as both sets of numbers are the wrong style and far too large. This thing isn't a genuine Dennis Martinez jersey from any season, 1976 or otherwise.

(In my honest opinion, of course, but I'm no Lou Lampson, so don't take my word for it...)

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=32346

[ryan4fregosi]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/e9/ef/61_1_b.JPG

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

as far as i know, the front numbers are supposed to be 5-5 1/4" and the back 7". based on "imagery analysis", i think i'd say the front numbers are the right height, but clearly not the correct font. the incorrect font simply looks larger than the correct one, but after measuring the two against each other it appears they're practically the same height. see below. both images have been sized so that the "orioles" script is the same size.



while the fonts are clearly different, i'm unsure why. either it's not legit or it was done up for the orioles by a local shop who made an error.

rudy.

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

I agree that the number fonts are way wrong (which I realized as well) but the genesis of my original email to them and then my post here was that there was NO WAY this could have been worn in 1976 (which one could not refute) & what proof that it was worn any other year.

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

bill,

if the nob and number are original and unaltered, then i agree it's practically impossible for martinez to have worn this jersey in 1976.

however, as you know, ami has recently amended it's description and now states it was worn in 1977. in general, i think one plausible scenario is that this jersey was received as a blank spare in 1976 and was made up and used in 1977. i've seen this specific practice occur. do you believe this scenario to be unlikely?

you cite as an issue that there no proof that martinez wore this jersey in 1977. this is an "issue" affecting most jerseys. what proof is there that any player wore any jersey? it all comes down to likelihoods. the most you can ever say about any non-photomatched jersey is that it was "very likely" to have been worn by that player.

as for martinez wearing this jersey in 1977, i don't think the 1976 tag poses a big concern for the reason i stated above. what i do think is a major concern is the fact that the numbers are the wrong font. they aren't even close.

for discussions sake, if the fonts were correct, what proof would there be that martinez didn't wear the jersey in 1977? that is, does the jersey, as a 1977 martinez gamer which is what ami is now calling it, have any other issues other than the fonts?

rudy.

[bigtime59]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

To say the Orioles were erratic in their choice of number fonts during the 70s and into the early 80s is to be somewhat generous...but, IIRC--and again, I'm much better 1989 forward than backward--when the Orioles used full block numbers like the ones shown on this jersey, I believe the rear numbers should be 6" and the name should be black only. Full block numbers and two-color NOB should be restricted to road jerseys during this period.
Once again, the combination of Lou! Lampson! and an Orioles! jersey! results in a major! train! wreck! with! lots! of! fatalities! (Why does he write LOAs like Shatner reads lines?)