AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

[ironmanfan]

The current AMI auction contains a lot (8891) which is described as a "1976 Dennis Martinez Game Worn Jersey (Rookie)"

The main thing wrong with this jersey is that it is a number 30 which Dennis did not wear until 1977 (his second year). I have photographic evidence of Dennis wearing number 61 after his Septemeber call up which is easily backed up by an Orioles program I own as well two reference books (Stang & "Now Batting...."). The number 30 was worn by two Orioles players in 1976, the first being Ken Holtzman and after he was traded to the Yankees in June, it was worn by Dave Pagan for the rest of the year (who was one of the players they rec'd in return).

The auction copy reads in part "this size (42) knit was worn by El Presidente in 1976 when he was a 21 year old rookie in Baltimore....the reason "D" was added was because the team also rostered Tippy Martinez
in '76. Dennis Martinez made his first appearance in May (my emphasis) while Tippy was on the roster Opening Day (again, my emphasis)."

Obviously that passage has nothing to do with the jersey's physical qualities but it is just so erroneous due to that fact that Dennis was recalled by the Orioles after the Rochester season was over on 09/09/76 and made his debut on the 14th of that month (pitched in four games). Tippy Martinez was not on the Orioles Opening Day roster that year since he was part of that Yankee trade that was mentioned earlier (06/15/76). These aren't simple "errors" as people like to refer to, but rather in my opinion just sloppy background work.

Interestingly, this same jersey was on eBay about a month or so ago & I contacted the seller with the same concerns and asked if there was a number/name change, etc. & he told me that there wasn't but that he would pull the auction & look into the situation. Obviously, he then consigned it to AMI.

Eric, I did contact AMI with these concerns on Friday evening and to be fair I gave them the weekend & all day Monday to respond and obviously they did not provide with me a courtesy of a reply.

And yes, for you at home keeping score, the jersey does come with a COA from Lou Lampson.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=32346

[trsent]

And yes, for you at home keeping score, the jersey does come with a COA from Lou Lampson.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=32346

What did Lou say when you asked him about his LOA?

Oh wait, that was not a realistic question.

[ironmanfan]

Joel, I guess the biggest part that blows me away that in the time it took them to fabricate the story of Dennis Martinez making his debut in May of 1976 and that Tippy Martinez was on the Opening Day roster that year, they (god forbid) could have spent 5 minutes to discover the facts.

I'm awaiting a response from either AMI or their apologists (including Ron F., James Rast, et al) for some sort of an intellectual response. Of course, the facts are on my side so I'm interested on what kind of a reply I would receive.

[trsent]

Joel, I guess the biggest part that blows me away that in the time it took them to fabricate the story of Dennis Martinez making his debut in May of 1976 and that Tippy Martinez was on the Opening Day roster that year, they (god forbid) could have spent 5 minutes to discover the facts.

I'm awaiting a response from either AMI or their apologists (including Ron F., James Rast, et al) for some sort of an intellectual response. Of course, the facts are on my side so I'm interested on what kind of a reply I would receive.

Odd, the description reads:

"D. MARTINEZ" is sewn directly to the jersey in plain block font. The reason "D." was added was because the team also rostered Tippy Martinez in '76. Dennis Martinez made his first appearance in May while Tippy was on the roster on Opening Day. Inner tail tagging includes a Rawlings "The Mark of a Pro" tag with two suspended flag tags: "1976" and Set 1."

Your assessments are correct, since Dennis made his debut according to Baseball Reference September 14, 1976 vs. DET 5.7 IP, 4 H, 5 SO, 1 BB 0 ER, W, while Tippy was traded to the O's June 15th, 1976 from the Yankees. It does not list the date Dennis was called up and placed on the O's rooster.

I can only assume AMI will make the changes to this lot (or pull it) once things settle down from the auction that ended last week.

[ironmanfan]

My reference on the day that Dennis was recalled from Rochester was from the 1977 Baltimore Orioles Media Guide.

[ironmanfan]

Wow (ALMOST MAGICALLY) this auction NOW reads as NOW been worn in 1977 labeled as "ROOKIE ERA" ...does anyone hear 1978 or 1979?

I guess this means that my chances to be in Vic & Kieta's new video have been eliminated????

Of course, I am still waiting for a courtesy of a reply.......

[ryan4fregosi]

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/e9/ef/61_1_b.JPG

[kingjammy24]

as far as i know, the front numbers are supposed to be 5-5 1/4" and the back 7". based on "imagery analysis", i think i'd say the front numbers are the right height, but clearly not the correct font. the incorrect font simply looks larger than the correct one, but after measuring the two against each other it appears they're practically the same height. see below. both images have been sized so that the "orioles" script is the same size.



while the fonts are clearly different, i'm unsure why. either it's not legit or it was done up for the orioles by a local shop who made an error.

rudy.

[ironmanfan]

I agree that the number fonts are way wrong (which I realized as well) but the genesis of my original email to them and then my post here was that there was NO WAY this could have been worn in 1976 (which one could not refute) & what proof that it was worn any other year.

[kingjammy24]

bill,

if the nob and number are original and unaltered, then i agree it's practically impossible for martinez to have worn this jersey in 1976.

however, as you know, ami has recently amended it's description and now states it was worn in 1977. in general, i think one plausible scenario is that this jersey was received as a blank spare in 1976 and was made up and used in 1977. i've seen this specific practice occur. do you believe this scenario to be unlikely?

you cite as an issue that there no proof that martinez wore this jersey in 1977. this is an "issue" affecting most jerseys. what proof is there that any player wore any jersey? it all comes down to likelihoods. the most you can ever say about any non-photomatched jersey is that it was "very likely" to have been worn by that player.

as for martinez wearing this jersey in 1977, i don't think the 1976 tag poses a big concern for the reason i stated above. what i do think is a major concern is the fact that the numbers are the wrong font. they aren't even close.

for discussions sake, if the fonts were correct, what proof would there be that martinez didn't wear the jersey in 1977? that is, does the jersey, as a 1977 martinez gamer which is what ami is now calling it, have any other issues other than the fonts?

rudy.