Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

[bat_master]

Hi Everyone,

I decided last night to take a chance on an item that I'm hoping was lost in the listings on ebay and not an outright forgery. The item is advertised simply as a 'Vintage 1920s-1940s Hillerich & Bradsby Bat', ebay #130028753504. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130028753504)

I was the high bidder in that auction, but wanted to get some thoughts on it. What do you think of the Ruth sig? Does anyone here even think there is a remote chance it could be real? According to the answered question the bat is 33 inches long.

Thanks
Tim Byington

[trsent]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

The seller appears to state the bat may have been looked over by an autograph authenticator who did not approve the signature since their letter comes with the item.

The bat has not been authenticated by a well known authentication company or authenticator. But it was examine by a impendent one. The letter in question will be sent with the bat to the winner of this auction.

I would say if the letter approved the autograph, the seller would have sold the item as such with a genuine autograph. Still a neat item for $100.00.

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Exactly. I figured for around $100 it was at least worth a shot. I think when I get it I'm going to send it either to JSA or PSA and have them look at it. I guess I'll hope for the best.

Thanks

Tim

[Rob L]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

The signature is well done, but PAAS is one of the better authentication companies. PAAS has three authenticators look at it and they must all agree before they deem the signature authentic. You may want to send the bat to JSA or PSA/DNA (if Mike Gutierrez will look at it) for a second opinion.

Rob L

[skipcareyisfat]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Tim - On the bright side, there's always Coaches Corner!

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

The signature is not authentic.

The examination was performed by Donald Frangipani, as per the knob.

The autograph will not pass PAAS, PSA/DNA, GAI.

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Sammy,

How did you know that by looking at the knob?

Thanks

Tim

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

On the knob is the following:

SEL - 184 DF

SEL are the initials of the person who sent the bat to Mr. Frangipani

184 is the 184th item Mr. Frangipani has looked at for this person

DF is Donald Frangipani

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Sammy,

That is awesome information as I had no idea. Not awesome in the fact that it isn't a legit signature, but awesome in that I think we all now have something new to watch for.

Since this item was sold as a vintage bat only, and not an autographed item...and I was foolish enough to buy it any suggestions for recourse?

My first thought is that I should simply hold onto the item or destroy it to keep the item out of the hobby. I would feel good about destroying it I guess even though I would still be out the $100.

Maybe I'll just see what the rest of the bat is like and remove the sig. Maybe it will make a nice display as is.

Thanks for the help! Sammy, great information!!!

Tim Byington

[slidekellyslide]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Donald Frangipani probably wouldn't know a real Ruth signature from a fake one since he was responsible for thousands of fakes getting certified in the first place. I'd have a respectable authenticator check it out before you destroy it.

[Rob L]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Donald Frangiapani was part of the Operation Bullpen sting that busted the largest forgery ring. The Marino's (the forgers) sent the majority of their items to DF for authentication because they knew he would pass the items. A second opinion is necessary in this instance.

Rob L

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Personally, I wouldn't send the bat to PSA/DNA, Spence, or any of the others.

PSA and Spence both charge 150.00 plus shipping for a Ruth signature and they will tell you it is fake. GAI will charge you 10.00 to tell you what I am stating for free, plus about 35.00 to ship it back.

The autograph is not legitimate, but if you must have a so called expert tell you the same thing I am stating, do this.

When you get the bat, take a very clear photo of the autograph. Place it on eBay for a .01 starting price, this will cost you .20. Spend 7.49 to have PSA/DNA do a quick opinion. They will tell you what I have, and it will only cost you 7.70.

As per Donald Frangipani being part of the Marino forgery ring, that is entirely false.

He did issue certs for a lot of their items. but every authenticator and authenticating company in business at that time issued certs for their items.

Some only a few, some a lot.

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Hi Everyone,

At this point, I'm not exactly certain what I'm planning on doing. I agree with Sammy's point about it likely being a forgery and I don't need an expert to tell me that.

While I would love to be able to find some reason to return the bat for a refund I also don't want this item to end up back in the hobby by being re-auctioned.

As I said earlier, I will likely just hold onto the bat or destroy it.

Thank you for all the responses and help.

Tim Byington

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

I'm no Ruth expert but I've seen enough to say that I wouldnt bet the farm on it being the fake that everyone thinks it is.....I'd say that it looks pretty good to me. Definitely worth the $ to authenticate. I'd try JSA before PSA/DNA though.

[kjjavic]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

I don't see why the seller would offer a refund. He was honest in selling it as simply a vintage bat. I would keep it for its vintage display value.