Who's going into HOF?

[Nathan]

Mattingly is most similar to the following 10 players:

Cecil Cooper
Wally Joyner
Hal McRae
Kirby Puckett
Garrett Anderson
Will Clark
Jeff Conine
Tony Oliva
Keith Hernandez
Jim Bottomley

Bottomley and Puckett are the only two HOFers, and Bottomley is generally regarded as one of the worst inducted. Puckett would be as well, if not for the following three factors:
1) His exuberant personality and friendly media dealings
2) The abrupt end to his career that caused many to project him over what the next 5-7 years would have held
3) A home run and a catch in the World Series

I loved Puckett, and it's possible that he would have continued on and been enormously productive, but in the basic reality of HOF induction I believe he falls short...or at least should have.

[JETEFAN]

Bryan,
Don't worry...I'm not one of the ones you have to convince about Kirby. I believe he should be there. He was everything you said and more. A personal story about Kirby...I am a physical therapist in Minnesota and I was treating one of his friends. He asked her to call him while she was at PT. I got on the phone and he said, "Mike, I just want to say thanks for treating my friend. I'm going to send a little something with her the next time she comes in." Well, the next visit, she brings in a signed Puckett bat (game-issued). She smudged the sig after he signed it, but it doesn't matter...a great story from a GREAT man and one of my prized collectibles.
Donnie and Puck were so close in stats, personality, etc., that I think we all like to link them together. In my opinion, they both deserve to be in. Mattingly's only playoff appearance in 1995 was like Puck's Game 6...Donnie hit over .400 for the series with a bunch of RBI's (I can't remember, but I think it was 6). He carried the team and if it wasn't for his bullpen, the Yanks would've advanced. I grew up in NY and never saw another player like Donnie Baseball. I'm sure I hold him in the same regard as you hold Puck. They are just one in a million. And, when you're that big of a fan, you just want to see them rewarded. The voting is subjective, our discussions are subjective...but, to me, Donnie Baseball is and always will be the best player I've ever seen.

Mike

BTW, Slybry, are you going to Twinsfest in a few weeks? My family and I will be there on Sunday in the Mauer line.

Well said Mike, Donnie hit .417, 6 RBI's and had a .708 Slug.!!!!!!

George

[Stefano61]

Albert Belle

Seasons 10

AB 5853

Runs 974

Hits 1726

HR 381

RBI's 1239

Avg. .295

His career was also cut short because of an injury. If Mattingly gets in this guy deserves the same treatment. Belle was a dominating force in the game period. I dont want to hear that he wasnt a good guy either. Numbers dont lie.

I totally agree with you, Albert Belle should be in the HOF...he had far more "Hall of Fame years" than Dawson and Rice, playing a lot less. I believe that excellence years should be decisive in judging a player performance (agree with McLaughlin of Hardball Times in this), I hate to see players going to the Hall because they play forever and pile up numbers in less than mediocre seasons...Belle had an OPS for his career of .933 (33rd in the history of the game with at least 5000 PA...Rice .854 and Dawson .806)...he was a complete player and the most feared hitter in baseball for a decade, forced to retire when he was still in his prime years, in my opinion that's more than enough for a place in the HOF

[5kRunner]

I totally agree with you, Albert Belle should be in the HOF...he had far more "Hall of Fame years" than Dawson and Rice, playing a lot less. I believe that excellence years should be decisive in judging a player performance (agree with McLaughlin of Hardball Times in this), I hate to see players going to the Hall because they play forever and pile up numbers in less than mediocre seasons...Belle had an OPS for his career of .933 (33rd in the history of the game with at least 5000 PA...Rice .854 and Dawson .806)...he was a complete player and the most feared hitter in baseball for a decade, forced to retire when he was still in his prime years, in my opinion that's more than enough for a place in the HOF

I'll admit, Albert Belle deserved a lot more consideration than he got. But, Dawson has 6 Gold Gloves to Belle's 0. You could make the argument Dawson was the most feared hitter in the NL for years. And if you argue Belle's career was cut short, you could also argue that playing in Montreal ruined Dawson's knees enough to affect his stats as well.

Anyway, the numbers are the numbers. But, in my opinion the players of the 80's were forgotten because of the steriod era of the late 90's and 00's.

[Nathan]

I don't think Joey Belle gets serious consideration because his career was too short to merit it. Had he played another 5-9 years at a high level the discussion would be there.

As for Andre Dawson, his career percentages are .279/.323/.482. I don't think he was "great", just "pretty good". It's entirely possible that the injuries prevented him from maximizing his ability, but no HOF outside of hockey puts guys in based on what could have been.

[2OnBase]

Great discussion points by everyone! I believe cross era comparisons with ballplayers should NOT be emphasized until comparison to peers from the same era is first considered. Equipment, rules, ballparks, field dimensions (especially fences and mound height), strike zones, all change as the game has developed. In my opinion, we should be comparing ballplayers to their peers from the same era AND at the same position prior to making any attempt to compare to another era. It takes a different type of player, to play shortstop rather than outfield, catcher rather than 2nd base, and so on. During certain eras of the game, the play expected and performed was different for most positions as the game has evolved. For example, the shortstops of the 60-70's were clearly more defensive minded than what has been witnessed recently with the superb offensive numbers for this position (with the exception of Ernie Banks). Relief pitching has changed significantly as well, but finally has been noticed by Hall voters. Unfortunately, those pitching prior to some of the "save" rule changes and statistics will likely be ignored for years to come.

Rod