Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

[frikativ54]

For those of you who haven't heard, Guillen was suspended for five games for his praising of Fidel Castro.

The Marlins' manager said that he "loved" and "respected" the Cuban dictator but later claimed that his comments were "lost in translation."

Ozzie has since apologized and tried to make amends with the Cuban-American community in Miami.

[gingi79]

Considering there are more displaced Cubans in Little Havana than actual Havana, it would be akin to the Israeli National Soccer Coach walking around Tel Aviv claiming "Adolf Hitler wasn't such a bad guy. He had excellent interior decorating skills and a fine sense of fashion"

[David]

Lot of angles to this, including: free speech versus he's a company employee and representative, political correctness (Yes, pc isn't just a liberal thing), most people in and out of Miami knew Ozzie was going to get suspended for saying something some time or the other, Ozzie often speaks before he thinks, common sense says Miami isn't the place to praise Castro, the team knew Ozzie had a big mouth when then hired him, the team knew he's already praised Hugo Chavez, etc.

[Skizzick]

I would LOVE to start a debate about this. Cuba is one of my favorite topics of discussion and I have studied it in great detail, and even lived in Havana for a semester.

First point: I saw nothing wrong with Guillen's comments, especially considering the man they come from. He said he respected Fidel Castro because people have tried to kill him and he's still here. He didn't say he loved Fidel Castro because he imprisons innocent people or because he is a dictator. I hoped he would have some cajones and stand by what he said, but it seems the Miami Cuban population can even silence Ozzie. If he was still the White Sox manager, or the manager of any other team outside of Miami, this would be a non-issue because people outside of the Miami metropolitan area are just not that enthused with Cuban issues.

Second point: Ozzie, a native Venezuelan, has time and again praised Hugo Chavez, even appearing on radio shows with him. MLB, the White Sox, and the media said nothing at the time. Meanwhile, Chavez is often (rightfully) compared to Castro for his human rights violations and his iron fist over his country

Third point: Does anybody else notice the double standard between Fidel Castro and Che Guevara? During the Cuban revolution and while he was in office Guevara committed a lot more atrocities than Fidel Castro, and even attempted armed rebellions in other countries as well. Yet, he is seen as a hero, adorning many t-shirts across the world while Fidel Castro, who is arguably a lot more moderate and reserved than a number of his companions, is branded as a villain and any mention of him in any sort of positive sense is met with scorn, hatred, fury, and calls for firing. Seriously, you could say something like, "Fidel Castro has good taste in cigars," and half of Miami would want you fired, tarred, and feathered. I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails). Still, you have to view the guy from an objective standpoint.

Fourth point (though slightly off-topic): The Miami Cuban American lobby has been one of the most detrimental lobbies for American foreign affairs. You have numerous politicians and experts on Cuba saying that open relations with Cuba would end the Castro regime quicker than the embargo and anti-Cuba rhetoric that exists today (and has for 50 years). If they had their way all the time, we would likely not have had any international baseball tournaments with both Cuban and US participation. Instead, the embargo has only propped the man up and kept him in power. If the US government didn't listen to the Cuban American lobby and engaged with the Cuban government, I contend that Fidel Castro would have been out of power decades ago.

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.

[LastingsMilledge85]

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.

You can say what you want, but that doesn't mean it won't be subject to criticism and penalties.

[David]

I believe in free speech, but Ozzie isn't paid millions of dollars to offend his employers' customers. That would get you suspended to fired in almost any job.

The freedom of speech argument is a bit of a red herring, as he always has freedom of speech. He can repeat right now or tomorrow what he told Time today and he won't get arrested. If they fired him he'd still have the legal right to praise Castro until the day he dies. The first amendment doesn't say you can't get fired by telling the boss his wife is a hag and his kids are retards. Doesn't work that way. Of course there can be practical and occupational consequences for your words.

[godwulf]

I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails).

Good to know I'm not alone in that.

[Skizzick]

Good to know I'm not alone in that.

I came very, very, very close to obtaining one when I was down in Cuba. Through some connections, I met a former member of Castro's cabinet that had one and was willing to sell it, but at the last minute he backed out. I got to hold it though, which was pretty cool.

[EurekaDave]

Imagine what would happen if the manager of the Industriales of Havana said the same thing about Barack Obama. You'd never see him again.

That said, the media is culpable in all this. And I can say that because I am media. We get outrageous people to say outrageous things because they make news--ratings, sell papers, etc. Ignore them and -- curiously --they go away.

Ironic that the very people who champion free-speech (we the media) use it in such inconsequential ways.

Dave Silverbrand
das1721@att.net

[cohibasmoker]

I would LOVE to start a debate about this. Cuba is one of my favorite topics of discussion and I have studied it in great detail, and even lived in Havana for a semester.

First point: I saw nothing wrong with Guillen's comments, especially considering the man they come from. He said he respected Fidel Castro because people have tried to kill him and he's still here. He didn't say he loved Fidel Castro because he imprisons innocent people or because he is a dictator. I hoped he would have some cajones and stand by what he said, but it seems the Miami Cuban population can even silence Ozzie. If he was still the White Sox manager, or the manager of any other team outside of Miami, this would be a non-issue because people outside of the Miami metropolitan area are just not that enthused with Cuban issues.

Second point: Ozzie, a native Venezuelan, has time and again praised Hugo Chavez, even appearing on radio shows with him. MLB, the White Sox, and the media said nothing at the time. Meanwhile, Chavez is often (rightfully) compared to Castro for his human rights violations and his iron fist over his country

Third point: Does anybody else notice the double standard between Fidel Castro and Che Guevara? During the Cuban revolution and while he was in office Guevara committed a lot more atrocities than Fidel Castro, and even attempted armed rebellions in other countries as well. Yet, he is seen as a hero, adorning many t-shirts across the world while Fidel Castro, who is arguably a lot more moderate and reserved than a number of his companions, is branded as a villain and any mention of him in any sort of positive sense is met with scorn, hatred, fury, and calls for firing. Seriously, you could say something like, "Fidel Castro has good taste in cigars," and half of Miami would want you fired, tarred, and feathered. I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails). Still, you have to view the guy from an objective standpoint.

Fourth point (though slightly off-topic): The Miami Cuban American lobby has been one of the most detrimental lobbies for American foreign affairs. You have numerous politicians and experts on Cuba saying that open relations with Cuba would end the Castro regime quicker than the embargo and anti-Cuba rhetoric that exists today (and has for 50 years). If they had their way all the time, we would likely not have had any international baseball tournaments with both Cuban and US participation. Instead, the embargo has only propped the man up and kept him in power. If the US government didn't listen to the Cuban American lobby and engaged with the Cuban government, I contend that Fidel Castro would have been out of power decades ago.

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.

Lived in Havana for a semester? What's that, 3-4 Months? Hum, at the end of your semester, how did you get home? Did you get on a airplane? Here's a suggestion - why not head back to Cuba and try spending a little more time in county instead of controlled "Havana". Head out of town and perhaps you'll be stopped and checked by some members of the Policía Nacional Revolucionaria, PNR, - you can voice your objections that your 4th Amendment rights are being violated. If your not arrested or beaten, you can talk to some of the folks who have family members incarcerated for life because they tried to voice their "Freedom of Speech". Or folks that had their land taken away from them for the "good" of the Country. Or, family members that were forced into State sponsored prostitution.

Yes, a large majority of Cuban Americans came to this Country in 1980 (Mariel Boatlift) and since that time, the homemade raft is the vessel of choice. So, instead of taking a plane home, try making a home-made raft. If the Cuban Navy doesn't sink your raft or kill you, you just have to navigate the 90 miles of shark infested waters. By the way, if the wind and tide isn't right, we could be swept out to sea and never heard from again. If you are lucky enough to make landfall, you may have a different view on what the Cubans refugees went through to get here and perhaps then, you'll have a better idea as to why they are upset with Mr. Guillen's statements.

I've never been to Cuba nor do I ever wish to go there. I've been a vacationer and owner of property in Key West for the past 20 years and have met my fair share of Cuban refugees and we have shared Mojitos and cigars plenty of times. They are a terrific and proud people and for the ones that got here on the home-made rafts, they have more "b _ _ _ s than most Americans will ever have, especially those Americans who complain that, if its raining on election day, they don't want to vote because they might get wet.

It's about RESPECT !!!!!!!!!!

Just some thoughts - hope I didn't offend.

Jim