PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

[schubert1970]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Yes, it was funny as i had mentioned looking at players stats covering late 30s and early 40s. And last time I looked, that would include ages 36, 37, etc. And my stats include many very good years above those ages as well.
Nice job not including Spahn in your little paradigm...bravo!

Spahn isn't a position player, just a tad different.

[gorilla777]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Spahn isn't a position player, just a tad different.

Yes, well just following your lead-in of using Clemens and Bonds as your only guys you could think of in that category. Clemens is a pitcher, Spahn is a pitcher. There is your connection.

[schubert1970]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Yes, well just following your lead-in of using Clemens and Bonds as your only guys you could think of in that category. Clemens is a pitcher, Spahn is a pitcher. There is your connection.

Wow, one pitcher from a different era to make your case... Why not show Cy Young????

Lol. Please stop it I can't take it anymore.

[gorilla777]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Good grief pal, you're too much. Come out with a tabloid rag type claim on Jeter and provide zero facts to back it up. Oh, other than some silly pictures...well played.

[schubert1970]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Good grief pal, you're too much. Come out with a tabloid rag type claim on Jeter and provide zero facts to back it up. Oh, other than some silly pictures...well played.

Thanks grape ape! You made my work day fly! I was just having fun. Some of you folks on here take all this too serious.

[gorilla777]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Don't take things so seriously and just relax. It should have been apparent I've been busting your chops a bit with this here.

And rather than continuing at all on this thread, you can reach me at bent_714 at yahoo dot com.....I'm betting others prefer that as well!

[MSpecht]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

I took a little time and edited this thread to clean up some spirited discussion (which for the most part is interesting) that had degenerated into some personal attack-type of commentary. Please stick to facts, conclusions, and opinions that are deviod of personal ridicule or name-calling. I still think this thread gas some way to go under the above guidelines.

Thanks....Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- here are two of my opinions just for the record:

1. No player in history has shown the dominance when compared to other players not only of the same age but throughout their career as Roger Clemens did his last 2 or 3 seasons. He was either the most naturally freakish old-timer in the history of sports (and civilization) or he was involved deeply with PEDs

2. There is a difference between Manslaughter and Murder One. The difference is called 'with malace aforethought,' and the penalties (7 years vs death penalty, respectively) reflect that. That being said, Melky Cabrera, based on the whole website fiasco and his admission, should receive a lifetime ban from baseball.


Back to the oriiginal intent of this post, stay away from personal attacks or personal characterizations in order to keep this interesting thread open. Thanks.

[trsent]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Lance Armstrong claims he was tested over 500 times.

I have been told by both scouts and players PED's help improve your eye sight as well.

A large % of players are still using, there is just to much money in the game. Just because there is testing the system is flawed, cyclist, football players, boxers, olympians are still using.

Yes, Lance Armstrong never failed a test, but ten people are willing to testify against him and they strip him of all his titles because he is tired of the "witch hunt".

You know what I say? I say they are out of line with their attacks of Lance. He was tested, he passed. Catch him and we'll talk, right?

Really?

Comparing an 18-19 year old kid fresh out of high school to a 34 year old professional athlete with almost 2 decades worth of elite training, nutrition and conditioning is hardly a fair or accurate comparison of anything

Bravo. I don't doubt that Barry Bonds and Jeff Bagwell may have had some PED's to grow, your point is 100% on the money. Can't a guy bulk up with hard work and a good diet?

I took a little time and edited this thread to clean up some spirited discussion (which for the most part is interesting) that had degenerated into some personal attack-type of commentary. Please stick to facts, conclusions, and opinions that are deviod of personal ridicule or name-calling. I still think this thread gas some way to go under the above guidelines.

Thanks....Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- here are two of my opinions just for the record:

1. No player in history has shown the dominance when compared to other players not only of the same age but throughout their career as Roger Clemens did his last 2 or 3 seasons. He was either the most naturally freakish old-timer in the history of sports (and civilization) or he was involved deeply with PEDs

2. There is a difference between Manslaughter and Murder One. The difference is called 'with malace aforethought,' and the penalties (7 years vs death penalty, respectively) reflect that. That being said, Melky Cabrera, based on the whole website fiasco and his admission, should receive a lifetime ban from baseball.


Back to the oriiginal intent of this post, stay away from personal attacks or personal characterizations in order to keep this interesting thread open. Thanks.

Now to my view on PED's in society. I always say it, when Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco were becoming superstars everyone knew they were using steroids. No one doubted this. Television announcers mentioned it during games. People discussed it and no one though it was wrong.

Now we go a punish these guys years later because they later became outlawed? Get over it I say, it is part of the history of the game.

I personally don't mind if professional athletes want to take PED's to get bigger and stronger. I think they should be legalized and regulated. Then everyone has the choice if they want to take drugs to risk their lives so they can play a sport and make money.

I was tweeting with Victor Conte recently and he said that they made a deal with a drug dealer to help nail professional athletes. What's wrong with society? You let off a drug dealer who tattles on selling to athletes? Dang, a pusher is a criminal. A drug abuser needs professional help.

[tacprc]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Fyi, earlier today I read an article in the August 1980 issue of Baseball Magazine titled Baseball's Ageless Superstars that focused on Stargell, McCovey, Willie Horton, Rose, Yastrzemski, Phil Niekro, Tommy John, and Luis Tiant -- so there have always been a few players who remained productive into their late 30's and early 40's.

p.s. I am big Pete Rose fan, and with age and experience I can see parallels between Rose, Armstrong, and the many other athletes (and politicians, etc.) who have been caught cheating, doping, or breaking other rules. They generally lie and obfuscate until the bitter end. I reckon they don't like being singled out for punishment when they figure others have done the same or worse.

[tacprc]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

*** Now we go a punish these guys years later because they later became outlawed? Get over it I say, it is part of the history of the game.

I personally don't mind if professional athletes want to take PED's to get bigger and stronger. I think they should be legalized and regulated. Then everyone has the choice if they want to take drugs to risk their lives so they can play a sport and make money. ***

I well remember the home run derby between Sosa and McGwire and I never heard any broadcaster or reporter say that they were using steroids or HGH. Yes, McGwire was openly using creatine but supposedly that was all.

I absolutely object to players using PED's. It creates an uneven playing field, and no player (much less some young kid just getting started) should be forced to take these substances and jeopardize his health in order to have a professional career. And no player should be forced to compete against a super-human, hyper-agressive athlete on PEDs. Think Lyle Alzado. Plus there is the whole issue of respecting the achievements of record holders and their fans. McGwire screwed Roger Maris and his family; and Barry Bonds royally screwed Hank Aaron.

If any sport permitted PED's, I would boycott it.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

The other day, I found some old clothes from my High School days in the attic. The waist size was 26 and I could barely get my old shirts on - I must have forgotten that I took steroids because at 58, those clothes don't fit me any more.

When I worked in Atlantic City, there were marathons and athletic events all the time. I specifically remember the "Race Across America" contest. When the contestants crossed the finish line, they were escorted, by a race official, to a bathroom where they were required to submit a urine sample. The race official NEVER left the side of the participant until the urine sample was taken. I believe its the same procedure at the Tour De France.

As for Lance Armstrong, he is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and he has NEVER, I repeat NEVER gotten a positive test for any type of steroid or growth enhancing drug in his system NEVER. As a somewhat reasonable person, I would have to think that;

1) somewhere along the 500 or so tests, there must have been at least a single positive test?
2) if he was "doping" one would think if he was smart enough to beat the tests, he would be smart enough to not tell anyone or at least be smart enough to hide his activities.

I thing he is being tried by the court of public opinion and until a positive test shows up or he admits taking a growth hormone (s) or other enhancement drug (s), I don't care what statements people make, - show me the test (s) results.

Just some thoughts,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[3arod13]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

I'm sick of people accusing players of using, when there's no solid proof!

[trsent]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

The other day, I found some old clothes from my High School days in the attic. The waist size was 26 and I could barely get my old shirts on - I must have forgotten that I took steroids because at 58, those clothes don't fit me any more.

When I worked in Atlantic City, there were marathons and athletic events all the time. I specifically remember the "Race Across America" contest. When the contestants crossed the finish line, they were escorted, by a race official, to a bathroom where they were required to submit a urine sample. The race official NEVER left the side of the participant until the urine sample was taken. I believe its the same procedure at the Tour De France.

As for Lance Armstrong, he is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and he has NEVER, I repeat NEVER gotten a positive test for any type of steroid or growth enhancing drug in his system NEVER. As a somewhat reasonable person, I would have to think that;

1) somewhere along the 500 or so tests, there must have been at least a single positive test?
2) if he was "doping" one would think if he was smart enough to beat the tests, he would be smart enough to not tell anyone or at least be smart enough to hide his activities.

I thing he is being tried by the court of public opinion and until a positive test shows up or he admits taking a growth hormone (s) or other enhancement drug (s), I don't care what statements people make, - show me the test (s) results.

Just some thoughts,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

From one cigar smoker to another, I couldn't have said it any better myself!

[tacprc]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Lance Armstrong is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and he has NEVER, I repeat NEVER gotten a positive test for any type of steroid or growth enhancing drug in his system NEVER. As a somewhat reasonable person, I would have to think that;

1) somewhere along the 500 or so tests, there must have been at least a single positive test?
2) if he was "doping" one would think if he was smart enough to beat the tests, he would be smart enough to not tell anyone or at least be smart enough to hide his activities.

I thing he is being tried by the court of public opinion and until a positive test shows up or he admits taking a growth hormone (s) or other enhancement drug (s), I don't care what statements people make, - show me the test (s) results.

Jim

Get ready to read the report from USADA. Lance Armstrong used EPO and other drugs in all his races since at least 1998. His only defense is that nearly all his competitors cheated too, and he is certainly right about that. Go to letsrun.com for links to various news stories on this subject.

[trsent]

Re: PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

Get ready to read the report from USADA. Lance Armstrong used EPO and other drugs in all his races since at least 1998. His only defense is that nearly all his competitors cheated too, and he is certainly right about that. Go to letsrun.com for links to various news stories on this subject.

So if they test you every day and you pass the tests, the United States Anti-Doping Agency can take away your Tour-De-France titles years after because others say he cheated? What gives the USADA authority over titles won in France?

Rick Reilly, one of the best sports writers around today with Bill Simmons, wrote the best article I've found so far:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8310275/armstrong-worth-honoring