1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

[sox83cubs84]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

I would like to see Ken Goldin's photos, as well, but I agree that I may have made an error, based on information not known in mainstream circles at the time. I await Ken's input anxiously.

Dave Miedema

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on eBay

Joel, You sell alot of pro-cut jerseys. I know you make certain that you indicate the tagging on the jersey as that is what makes it a pro-cut. Scoreboard would have done the same if they were marketing the Rose jerseys as a signed pro-cut. Scoreboard also sold autographed authentics and the Rose listing is worded much like those jerseys were described. I just don't see that the Rose Scoreboard add has much evidenciary value...that's all my theory is based on. JP

JP, When you say "autographed authentics," do you mean a team issued jersey or a non-pro-cut replica? Thanks.

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

Someone asked for a scan of a "common player" with the '90 tags in an '89 jersey so here you go- 1989 Pat Sheridan S.F. Giants road jersey. Sheridan was traded to the Giants by Detroit in June of 1989.

Lon, Could you please tell us the size (length, width) of the letters and numbers on the front and back of your 1989 jersey? Thanks.

[joelsabi]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

Lon, Could you please tell us the size (length, width) of the letters and numbers on the front and back of your 1989 jersey? Thanks.

How would Sheridan use "1989" jersey with 1990 tagging? Has to be team issued 1990 Sheridan jersey though he never played in the major in 1990.

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

I think we've determined that what some thought was 1990 tagging does appear in 1989 jerseys. The Paul O'Neill jersey was another example.

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

Fyi, I received an email from a Reds collector as regards the Rose eBay jersey. He said, " I do like the bleeding between the sleeve stripes. All the 1989's I have ever owned had the same bleeding."

[joelsabi]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

I think we've determined that what some thought was 1990 tagging does appear in 1989 jerseys. The Paul O'Neill jersey was another example.

on the oneill is that 3 (1989) or 4 (1990) lines of washing directions? i cannnot tell from your photo.

also how would a 1990 tagging even appear on a Set 1 of a player jersey?

[joelsabi]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

on the oneill is that 3 (1989) or 4 (1990) lines of washing directions? i cannnot tell from your photo.

also how would a 1990 tagging even appear on a Set 1 of a player jersey?

opps 3 (1990) or 4 (1989)

[joelsabi]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

also how would a 1990 tagging even appear on a Set 1 of a player jersey?

i figured out this is possible as each order even late in the season are renumbered (ie. 2 jerseys in an order has a set 1 and a set 2)

[trsent]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

Joel, You sell alot of pro-cut jerseys. I know you make certain that you indicate the tagging on the jersey as that is what makes it a pro-cut. Scoreboard would have done the same if they were marketing the Rose jerseys as a signed pro-cut. Scoreboard also sold autographed authentics and the Rose listing is worded much like those jerseys were described. I just don't see that the Rose Scoreboard add has much evidenciary value...that's all my theory is based on. JP

In 1989-1990 no one knew what a pro-cut was. That term became the norm with NBA jerseys a few years later.

I have received a lot of contact over this jersey, and I'm suspicious of all four jerseys posted, 1989 Set 1. Did Pete Rose order some extras? How come two jerseys are signed identically in the center of the front and two signed identically below the #14 on the front? Makes me think something is suspicious with all four.

I have been told that Pete Rose may have been selling his jerseys in 1989 also, but very odd all four jerseys have similar signature on the front. I'm beginning to question all four jerseys as being Scoreboard. If Pete was selling them himself, how could the signature always be in a similar location of two places? Didn't any get signed on back?

I'm so confused. In the meantime, I stand behind my original assessment of this jersey and I'm sorry to see a mistake was made.

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

The 1989 O'Neill Reds home jersey has three lines of washing instructions.

[joelsabi]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

The 1989 O'Neill Reds home jersey has three lines of washing instructions.

So this jersey has a 1990 jersey tag with a 1989 flag tag. Since a jersey cannot exist prior to the year the jersey tag was introduced, my only logical conclusion is that the jersey was from 1990. The jersey should speak for itself regardless of what some curator told you and I can understand why the curator would think it was from 1989 with a 1989 flag tag staring at hime. However, I have to go with Rudy's findings as he has studied so many Rawlings tags from this time period. The tags on the O'Neil jersey look very clean by the way.

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

So this jersey has a 1990 jersey tag with a 1989 flag tag. Since a jersey cannot exist prior to the year the jersey tag was introduced, my only logical conclusion is that the jersey was from 1990. The jersey should speak for itself regardless of what some curator told you and I can understand why the curator would think it was from 1989 with a 1989 flag tag staring at hime. However, I have to go with Rudy's findings as he has studied so many Rawlings tags from this time period. The tags on the O'Neil jersey look very clean by the way.

Ummm, No. Rather what some thought was 1990 tagging does appear in 1989 jerseys.

[joelsabi]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

Ummm, No. Rather what some thought was 1990 tagging does appear in 1989 jerseys.

and what is your sampling to come up with that conclusion?

i wont post again as we differ in opinion.

just a food for thought:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=991&highlight=rawlings

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=25841&postcount=8

[tacprc]

Re: 1989 Pete Rose Gamer on ebay

Sample? Just in this thread the Sheridan and O'Neill jerseys and possibly the Rose jersey on eBay.

Also, here is a post by mattmueller on 4-24-09 in one of your links.

"Just wanted to add to the 1990 style tagging used on some 1989 jerseys discussion above. Below is a photo of a 1989 Jay Aldrich Milwaukee Brewers jersey, which contains the 1990 style tag.

As an update by Rudy in a recent thread indicates, the tag style change appears to occured mid-year so late season callups may likely have the new tagging."

I searched all of Rudy's (kingjammy24) posts from just before 4-24-09 but couldn't find the exact one referenced by mattmueller. The last post that I can see from kingjammy24 is dated 4-06-09 due to the 500 post limit.