David Ortiz Hallf of Fame bound??

[suave1477]

I was just curious on members thoughts. there are several different angles you can look at to answer this question.

Does he have hall of fame numbers? Not really, but if he can last a couple of more years he can hit 500 home runs. He is at 401

Does he have hall of fame numbers for his position at DH? Absolutely!!! I dont think another DH in history has put up his numbers.

So the questions becomes does he not get elected because overall his numbers are above average and but not super star numbers or does he get in because for his position they are super star numbers???

[3arod13]

I was just curious on members thoughts. there are several different angles you can look at to answer this question.

Does he have hall of fame numbers? Not really, but if he can last a couple of more years he can hit 500 home runs. He is at 401

Does he have hall of fame numbers for his position at DH? Absolutely!!! I dont think another DH in history has put up his numbers.

So the questions becomes does he not get elected because overall his numbers are above average and but not super star numbers or does he get in because for his position they are super star numbers???

I think the Hall of Fame should be reserved for full time players, who play both offense and defense. I don't care for a player who primarily a DH's, and doesn't do his part in the field. Just my opinion.

[emann]

I think the Hall of Fame should be reserved for full time players, who play both offense and defense. I don't care for a player who primarily a DH's, and doesn't do his part in the field. Just my opinion.

So, no American League pitchers can get in?

I get your point, but I don't think you can limit to only offensive/defensive players. DH's are playing a position that is part of the game, they should be allowed in. If you put up outstanding numbers it shouldn't matter if you're a DH, pinch hitter, etc...

That said, I think Ortiz is borderline. I think if he gets in, it'll be due to '04 WS nostalgia, popularity and probably years after he's eligible.

[gnishiyama]

Different type of player and Ortiz won 2 WS which should help a lot but
when speaking of DH and stats alone, if he gets the nod then serious considerations should be made for Edgar Martinez.

Being a Yankees fan and watching Ortiz battle it out with us over the
years, I think he should be in the Hall of Fame because of the intangible
qualities he adds to his borderline HOF stats. I also think Mussina should
be in because he put borderline HOF #s pitching exclusively in the AL East.
I felt the same way for Pettitte before the PED incident because of his WS
numbers.

Not to steer this thread off course but my point being, Ortiz brings not
only solid numbers but other intangibles that only someone who watched
him a lot can appreciate. However, like Mussina and Pettitte, I feel Ortiz's
numbers alone aren't enough to be considered a shoo-in for the HOF.

[georgia1011@yahoo.com]

Didn't papi get caught? They aren't letting the big boys in yet

[3arod13]

So, no American League pitchers can get in?

I get your point, but I don't think you can limit to only offensive/defensive players. DH's are playing a position that is part of the game, they should be allowed in. If you put up outstanding numbers it shouldn't matter if you're a DH, pinch hitter, etc...

That said, I think Ortiz is borderline. I think if he gets in, it'll be due to '04 WS nostalgia, popularity and probably years after he's eligible.

Understand what you're saying. I just don't think someone who plays part of the game should be a HOFer. Thanks!

[joelsabi]

Understand what you're saying. I just don't think someone who plays part of the game should be a HOFer. Thanks!

With specialization as part of the game, i think there is a place for them whether its a DH or closer. Mariano Rivera contribution to a win is much more than some players who play the entire game.

Just by the HOF voting, closers get more respect than DHs. Martinez has been stuck at the 35% voting range the past three years.

[jake33]

I personally cannot stand him, but objectively all this to be taken into consideration.

PROS
*As of now he is an 8 time all star, being a 10 time all star would be hard to deny him the HOF, it is easier to be an all star now then 20 years ago, but still a very notable acomplishment
*Reputation as being a clutch hitter
*Two World Series Wins, both in Boston cannot hurt either
*5x silver slugger
*ALCS MVP (not a huge long term achievement, but still very notable)
*99 Homeruns shy of 500
*He should get 2000+ hits (not even sure if Giambi will even have that many)

CONS
*Steroids being a concern
*He is potentially one injury away from not being able to get to 500 homeruns, not getting 500 will not doubt hurt him somewhat.
*6 100+ RBI seasons is very very good, but he was not the consistent RBI machine that Manny Ramirez was, who will likely have 300+ more RBI than Ortiz and Manny will have to pay some dues before he gets in
*Won't be a .300 career hitter
*Good chance he doesn't get even to 2500 career hits. (Thome won't have 2500 hits either, but think he is a slightly safer HOF bet than Ortiz)
*VERY VERY Good OBP, but by the time he retires, likely will go down 10 points.
*Being a DH will hurt him in some way
*Was he ever the best player on his own team?

Also look a this overall value in these categories

Speed: Poor
Defense: Non factor
Hitting for average: Good to Very Good
Hitting for Power: Excellent
Longevity: Very Good
Misc: 2 RedSox World Series will be a very good plus for him

Think of this, even considering steroids into the mix, how much higher do you rank Ortiz over Rafael Palmeiro?

[CampWest]

I like Ortiz. I think he is a great player. I am fine with a DH getting in the HOF.

Nonetheless, while he is a very good player, I don't think I would vote for him.

I would probably vote for Edgar Martinez, probably overvaluing his batting average. Slight drop in Slug, but slightly higher OPS.

The tipping point of steroid usage keeps Ortiz out for me and gets Edgar Martinez in.

To me Papi is just short of the HOF. If he gets in, I wouldn't cry foul though.

[xpress34]

Absolutely not.

This is a guy who (and I quote), "Ban em for a whole year."

Ortiz wants season-long ban


Yet, he had already tested positive:

Ortiz says union told him of positive test

So he's a user and a hypocrite.

And before the comments start about his 'positive test' was before the new rules start rolling, I'll just say this:

If Big Mac (who actually played a position and was closing in on 600 HRs) is banned from the Hall because of his 'taking the 5th' and then subsequent admission to using, then there is no way you can let Big Papi slide in - regardless of whether he gets to 500 HRs or not.

Just my .02

- Smitty