Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

To answer the question above with percentages for 1st year on ballot:

Barry Bonds: 40-50%
Roger Clemens: 40-50%
Sammy Sosa: 15-20%

Bonds and Clemens would have been HOFers without the use of PEDs, but the use or expected use of PEDs will keep them out as first ballot HOFers. Their percentages will go up a lot next year, but they still might not make it. Sammy Sosa may not have been a HOFer without the use or expected use of PEDs. By the way, Mike Piazza may have used as well. Curt Schilling and Craig Biggio are not as good as the other players named above, and probably are not first ballot. Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jeff Bagwell, and Lee Smith are not as good as the 6 players (Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Schilling, and Biggio) that are on their first ballot this year. This situation could also make some eligible players get booted off the ballot because voters can only vote for 10 players (i.e. Mattingly, etc.).

By the way, one person who does not belong in the HOF is Bud Selig. If he would not have let the issue of steroids go in the first place, we would not be having this problem today.

Chris

Do you blame Selig more than the Player's Union? Also, more fans then ever were pouring through the gates, and NOBODY was questioning steroids. Why should he stop the gravy train??

[Chris78]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

Do you blame Selig more than the Player's Union? Also, more fans then ever were pouring through the gates, and NOBODY was questioning steroids. Why should he stop the gravy train??

I personally was against no action being taken back in the late 90's. I remember being in college and saying that records would be broken and then the perception would be tainted in the end. That is where it is now. I felt then and today that Bud Selig is the main reason why we have this mess. He also should not go in the HOF as a result.

Pete Rose broke the cardinal rule of baseball. Statistically speaking he is a HOFer, but gambling on baseball is the reason why he is not in. I personally do not care if goes in. I understand both sides of the equation.

You can make the argument that no one should go in the HOF this year. In a year where you had at least 4 guys that should be first ballot based on stats, this class is tainted. The holdovers are not as good either.

Chris

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

I've always thought I'd put Pete in and stamp in capitals across the bottom of his plaque: BANNED FOR BETTING ON BB AS A MANAGER. On the other hand, I don't feel the loss if he doesn't make it.

I wouldn't put any of the steroids guys in, for reasons stated here by others. Bonds and Clemens both would have made it easily without the steroids, so they are kind of in Pete's place: on the outside due to their own demons.

As for who DOES get in, I say Piazza hands-down. I've always wondered why people were always so down on him. Really, what more do you want from a catcher??

I think Biggio will be an interesting case. He did reach that magic landmark of 3000 hits, which is impressive no matter what. But during his career, did anyone EVER say "there goes a HOFer!"?? I think not.

Selig: yes, the steroids are disappointing. But he has also run the league through it's most prosperous years ever. Before you laugh or sneer "TV money," check out the attendance levels. Really, was Bowie Kuhn better? Ford Frick??? There are a lot of ills in baseball, but there always has been, and the highs he's reached are higher than almost any other Commish.

I think Jack Morris and Tim Raines were incredible players who are vastly overlooked. I hate myself for saying this, but there's much worse in the HOF.

Ken

[joelsabi]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

on Selig, withholding his negligence in the steroid matter this is what i see as his accomplishments.


how about making the all star game count for home field advantage.
how about stopping the all star game in a tie
how about cancelling a world series

[Bondsgloves]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

I think the Hall will elect somebody , they want a ceremony every year. Cooperstown's economically needs a induction ceremony every year, its all about the money. Frankly I didn't think Barry Larkin was a HOFer he benefitted from a weak class...

As a Bonds collector I could care less either way.

I think Pete Rose is more relevent and collectible today because he is not in the Hall. People bring up his name in conversation and debate every year because he is not in.. If he was in people wouldn't be talking about him nearly as much. Do you think as many people would know a bout shoeless joe if he had been elected? If he had already been elected not as many people would ever no who he is. I think the players that are kept out even though deserving... are more famous for not being in than if they were elected.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

on Selig, withholding his negligence in the steroid matter this is what i see as his accomplishments.


how about making the all star game count for home field advantage.
how about stopping the all star game in a tie
how about cancelling a world series

1) I agree
3) It takes two to tango
2) I argue with my father-in-law about this all the time. The ASG is a meaningless exhibition (or at least it was until point #1.) What if the game went 5-7-15 more innings? I don't know what team you root for, but how would you feel watching YOUR All Star pitcher have to throw 7 or 8 innings in an ASG? We've seen what happens to even great pitchers when they extend themselves too far (Helllooo, Johann!) If you have a beef with an ASG being called, imagine how much you'd complain if your team's shot at the playoffs were ruined because your stud pitcher is on the DL because he had to finish some exhibition game!

[jbsportstuff]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

I think the Hall will elect somebody , they want a ceremony every year. Cooperstown's economically needs a induction ceremony every year, its all about the money. Frankly I didn't think Barry Larkin was a HOFer he benefitted from a weak class...

As a Bonds collector I could care less either way.

I think Pete Rose is more relevent and collectible today because he is not in the Hall. People bring up his name in conversation and debate every year because he is not in.. If he was in people wouldn't be talking about him nearly as much. Do you think as many people would know a bout shoeless joe if he had been elected? If he had already been elected not as many people would ever no who he is. I think the players that are kept out even though deserving... are more famous for not being in than if they were elected.

Couldn't disagree more about Lark. He was an elite player for several seasons and no one was better at what he did when he played.

[jppopma]

Re: Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

I think the writers have made their position pretty well known on PED's in the low number of votes for the others who have been tied in with the steroid issue. While not the caliber of players as Sosa and Bonds, their numbers are noticeably lower in previous years voting compared to other players.

I also disagree that they will elect someone just to have a ceremony. They still have the veterans committee and other ways to have inductees. There have been years in the past when nobody has been elected, and I personally agree in the strict requirements.