Dan Lozano memorabilia deals with Kevin Freistat dba KLF Sports: Indiscretions showing up with Votto

[AWA85]

Unfortunately your thinking along the wrong terms In today's day in age it is Business not Baseball and much as you want Votto to be morally righteous chances are Votto knows exactly what he is doing and not being so naive as you may think.

If you want to give Votto a pass because you think he is business naive, but from your own accounts and others brought up here who I agree with 100% seems like Votto understands exactly what is going on

But I do understand your frustration, sometimes we want to believe someone is so good and honest we become blind to what is really going on

I agree 100% on Votto knowing exactly what he is doing. If you look through the MLB hologram database around the previous alternate jersey numbers you will see each and every Votto took to be authenticated. That includes multiple fielding gloves, each individual cleat as well as each individual batting glove. This is not a new thing by Votto and I find it hard to put any of this on Kevin. Joey is taking these items from the clubhouse with the intent to pass them off to be sold.

I have recently purchased a few game used items from Kevin (13alexrodriguez) and have been extremely pleased with each one of them. His communication, feedback and additional details about each item was top notch in my interactions with him. He provided me with amazing items that were well above my expectations when I received them.

I will second Josh on what he said about feeling for Jon of Reds Authentics. He does an amazing job with the game used jerseys, tracking them and really cleaning up game used items for Reds collectors.

[marino13]

I have dealt with KLF in the past - it's catch22 at best.

Havent dealt with them since.

[rchimes13@yahoo.com]

[QUOTE=AWA85;310221
I have recently purchased a few game used items from Kevin (13alexrodriguez) and have been extremely pleased with each one of them. His communication, feedback and additional details about each item was top notch in my interactions with him. He provided me with amazing items that were well above my expectations when I received them.

I will second Josh on what he said about feeling for Jon of Reds Authentics. He does an amazing job with the game used jerseys, tracking them and really cleaning up game used items for Reds collectors.[/QUOTE]

Could not agree more on both of these statements. I purchased the 2010 ASG bat and am confident that I have a lock tight photo match on his second at bat. The only picture I can find of first at bat is his Topps card commemorating his ASG appearance and it is not my bat so I'm left to say he did use two bats in that game. I also won the 2012 playoff jersey and was able to photo match it to games 4 & 5. Although I share same sentiment as Dan and Adam regarding Jon and Reds Community Fund if i want to add to my collection of my favorite player then KLF it is, but as always I do a ton of research on each item I bid on or purchase whether its direct from Reds or Kevin.

[dplettn]

I'm not suggesting Josh or Ryan are wrong that Votto isn't naive to the fact that the stuff his handlers having him sign as game used or game used for such and such year or game is false.

I do believe the following though:

A young man who's time and energy are focused on being exceptional at his craft should not be assumed to know that such technical falsities are relevant.

If a young man's stewards cause him to have such a perspective, he doesn't know to care whether his name is signed below a little white lie that only a few fanatical nerds are privy to.

A good steward would teach him that there is no reason to associate one's good name with such lies. A good steward certainly wouldn't cause such a blessed and hard working young man to lend his good name toward lies for compensation that presents him poorly but is irrelevant in scale/scope.

Neither would a good steward cause him to take from a charity for (small) money. It may be penny-wise, but its pound foolish.

The agent should be focused on the player's good name, and endorsement value. Its just uncaring long term stewardship from the people who are handling the gifted and hard working athlete. The athlete can not undo it and he'll be embarrassed each time he sees the items resold as an older adult. Time gives all perspective. And did the few extra bucks matter? This is peanuts next to endorsement deals.

[AWA85]

Dan, what information is out there that doesn't point to Joey just wanting to make some more money? He has been doing this since his days in the minor leagues when he was with various other game used companies (Just, PCM, Lockeroom Memorabilia for example).

All of the players are aware that jerseys and game used items sold from the Reds go to a charity. Many of the players have stated how cool it is they help raise money for the Reds Community Fund, so I find it hard to believe that Joey was unaware or lead down a different path by somebody else. The money is there and he chose to take items such as the alternate jersey out on his own to be dealt.

[dplettn]

Dan, what information is out there that doesn't point to Joey just wanting to make some more money? He has been doing this since his days in the minor leagues when he was with various other game used companies (Just, PCM, Lockeroom Memorabilia for example).

All of the players are aware that jerseys and game used items sold from the Reds go to a charity. Many of the players have stated how cool it is they help raise money for the Reds Community Fund, so I find it hard to believe that Joey was unaware or lead down a different path by somebody else. The money is there and he chose to take items such as the alternate jersey out on his own to be dealt.

JV had enough perspective to realize that the further money north of $20 million a year isn't worth sacrificing a positive environment for when he chose all the good which comes with being a Cincinnati Red over leaving for a salary/endorsement richer city (ie: West Coast like Pujols or NYC like Arod). I certainly don't ignore that when considering what Votto's priorities were/are whenever he gives any matter thought. My guess on this memorabilia situation is that it comes down to him not having thought about it independently.

I understand the observations others are making with regard to Votto's tendencies from years prior. Granted, habits can be hard to break. But the organizational culture has changed in the stuff being distributed effectively by the Reds for a good cause. And, it's a different thing (with relevance to the player's pocket) to pocket some spending money when a guy is on a six figure vs an eight figure salary.

Again, I believe this is primarily an issue with who is stewarding him not knowing when being penny-focused becomes pound foolish. That's not to say he won't be the one who is victimized for it. It is not Dan Lozano's graceful dignity and endorsement value at stake.

Do you really think any guy making eight figures and endorsement prospects worth more would do such things for chump change if he was independently thinking about it or well stewarded?

[jshortt]

I can tell you this, Joey has offered the Reds first crack to purchase the stuff that goes to KLF (gloves, etc.). They are given a list with items Joey is making available and cost to purchase each. They pass because of the pricing. Votto knows EXACTLY what he is doing here, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, you still feel he is being taken advantage of. I'm lost as to what is making you believe he is being led astray by Lozano like he's some sort of master jedi, using the mind trick on this young, impressionable, naive athlete.

I like Joey a lot. He's a good guy, and has always been very good to me, but he is very much a professional when it comes to the autographs, inscriptions & game used stuff. I have had conversations with him where he has asked me how much his stuff is going for in various markets. He didn't take ALL his jerseys this year. He let Reds Authentics keep at least 4 that I know of, and I'm sure in his mind, that was $6000-$12,000 the RCF made from his jerseys. He took his playoff jerseys (which a player of his stature is currently allowed to do), and did what he pleased with them. In this instance, what he wanted to do was sell at least one of them. If he didn't want to sell his gear, he wouldn't. It's as simple as that. And who knows, maybe one day he'll turn into Junior and start hoarding all his stuff, but for now, he is choosing to sell it and you can like it or hate it. The choice of whether to make a moral stand and abstain from buying is on you. But believe me, somebody else will always be there, ready to pony up the dough to have the item in their collection.

-Josh

[justinwc80]

In the end we are all fans and that will always make you biased. As much as you want to believe that your favorite player is a naive pawn they aren't. Individuals are responsible for their own decisions in the end. I think a lot of Votto but he is an adult and sports at this level, as much as I hate to admit it, are a business.