Dan Lozano memorabilia deals with Kevin Freistat dba KLF Sports: Indiscretions showing up with Votto

[dplettn]

It has been close to two years since I demonstrated a situation where our hobby’s faith in an exclusive game used dealer (early JO Sports Reference Thread) had been badly unfounded. Saddened as I am to do so, I today need to share observations about another marketer who is defacing our hobby and my family’s favorite athlete.

I won’t hazard a guess as to whether legal consequences will beset Kevin Freistat doing business as KLF Sports. But I am curious myself the extent to which other “exclusive” relationships Freistat/KLF or other marketers have with player agent Dan Lozano’s athletes are similarly tarnishing our hobby. I invite additional observations from other collectors who are expert in the game used items of Lozano signed players including Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, and Joey Votto. In discussing the observations below with another collector, he suggested game used product problems have followed the player/agent regardless which non-team 3rd party held the then-current player relationship at the time.

My own observations regarding Freistat/KLF marketed items relate to the player my family passionately commemorates and collects, Joey Votto. Perhaps the saddest element in this particular instance is if any Votto bats/helmets/jerseys offered by KLF Sports are/were fully legitimate, their proceeds should (by terms of MLB’s CBA) be raising proceeds for the non-profit Reds Community Fund. The Community Fund provides a number of baseball themed outreach programs to under-privileged youth. While players at good member teams across the league are culturally encouraged to keep milestone items for themselves, the club has complete ownership and control of items like bats, helmets and jerseys according to the CBA. I don’t think anybody takes any issue with that. In the Reds organization, legitimate items are marketed exclusively by Reds Authentics with proceeds benefitting the Reds Community Fund. If a player’s agent did encourage the player to effectively steal items for economic use, they are usurping the charitable foundation’s economic benefit. For the person handling Joey’s economic and PR affairs, this seems a foolish counter-action to the intentions announced with Votto’s 12-year extention. It is the player who reaps or determine who reaps financial benefits (when desired) by signing their autograph. I’ve got to think that an agent directing players to steal proceeds of team owned items from a charity isn’t helping that player’s endorsement prospects. And frankly, isn’t that where there’s much more money.

Clearly, I believe an agent seeking to generate financial gain on team-owned game used merchandise that would otherwise raise money for charity is a fool’s errand. Anyway, it’s the execution of this “fools errand” that draws particular eire. I’m not a court of law and I am not going to call the marketing of these items “fraud”. That isn’t for me to determine. Rather, I’m just going to be transparent about what I know.

The purported 2010 bat used in the All Star game was auctioned through eBay and was sold to a member on our forum in October, with the bat shown in the listing inscribed “GU ’10 AS”. When our forum member received the bat, it was a different bat with different use and a different inscription. Sounds like an innocent shipping accident ; perhaps it was a shipping accident.

But here is where it gets complex. The bat our forum member received is NOT the bat inscribed “GU ’10 AS”, advertised as Votto’s ’10 ASG bat. Yet the bat was kept was kept by the buyer who says it actually was a clear photomatch to AP image 102875341 (from the actual game). Even after all this was said to be communicated to Freistat/KLF by our forum member, the only bat ever marketed which is inscribed “GU ’10 AS” is again offered by KLF on eBay.

Who wouldn’t love to buy a bat different from the one that is photomatched for $8,900? The description includes text “This bat was used during the 2010 ALL-STAR GAME”, “BAT IN THE AUCTION IS THE ONE YOU WILL RECEIVE,” and even notes “FULL LETTER FROM PSA”. The actual PSA letter states “Joey Votto has inscribed the item as being used in the 2010 All Star Game. We have reviewed photographs of Votto at the plate and though a photo match cannot be confirmed, we can confirm a model match with the same contact area on the black barrel.” Votto did have two at bats in the game. If marketed by a person/entity who knows whether he used a different bat for the other at bat, I could envision a legitimate seller advertising each bat as a bat used for one (of two) ASG game at bats.

Some other glimpses may afford a context to whether the description lacks context, or whether the inscription and marketing are blatantly false. If we look at another KLF eBay listing, we find a 2011 spring training/bp jersey (“Sparky Patch”) with a 2012 Game Used Inscription. Possibly an honest inscription error; albeit one that I can’t envision occurring under expert control standards of Reds Authentics. Even if merely negligent, I’m told the seller has been made aware of the issue. The listing still does not reflect the mismatched year.

Another KLF eBay auction recently closed provided a jersey in the MLB database not under “Game Used Jersey” but under “PLAYER COLLECTED ITEM”. The listing says “JERSEY WAS SOLD DIRECT TO KLF SPORTS, EXCLUSIVE CLIENT”. However, calls to the Reds do not confirm they were the supplier of this jersey. However little wear is apparent on the property tag, Votto may have worn this jersey. When marketed though, a fully transparent listing would specify what MLB database it is in (because the standards of authentication are different) and should not imply that it was acquired direct by the legally rightful direct supplier (per CBA, the Reds). Perhaps it’s a credit to the Reds collecting community that the jersey was not popular on eBay. It closed for far less than Jerseys raise for the Reds Community Fund through Reds Authentics. If not an instance where some questioned its legitimacy, buyers may merely show themselves content to spend more for a charity. I certainly prefer to buy with proceeds going to the Reds Community Fund.

Perhaps the most obvious problematic current KLF eBay listing is the purported game used throwback jersey. This one isn’t even in the Player Collected MLB database, and no wonder. These jerseys were worn on August 22nd, 2012. They are gorgeous and Reds Authentics raised great money for the Reds Community Fund selling a number of them MLB Authenticated as game used. Although Freistat/KLF is offering a generic LOA with Votto’s signature in the listing saying the Freistat/KLF item was “Game used by me personally”, I’ve been reminded by one of KLF’s customers who said they discussed already with Kevin Freistat that Votto wasn’t even travelling with the club at the time.

We can only speculate on who causes these items to be signed as they are signed. Perhaps one hint is embedded in an item listing that Lozano’s chosen memorabilia dealer (KLF) probably should be exclusively marketing. It is a Reds Votto jersey, and doesn’t have a Reds property tag on it. Its description reads rather clearly “JOEY DOES NOT SIGNED JERSEYS FOR ANYONE, THIS WAS AT KLF SPORTS SIGNING.”

I invite intelligent additions to this thread. I doubt Joey Votto reads this, but if he does I sure hope he knows intelligent folks do not assume he arranges his own supply contracts. I anticipate this thread might afford our community the opportunity to discuss objectively the tendency of disinterest for players represented by certain folks to adhere to the CBA with regard to team ownership of bats, helmets and jerseys – particularly when the rightful beneficiary of those items is a charity. Further, I anticipate this thread may address the difference in marketing ethics between self-interested agents/memorabilia agents in contrast to the standards we’ve come to trust in the traditional MLB game used database.

Building on the topic myself, I’d like to say that none of us should be naive. If Lozano or Votto dislike the Reds Community Fund, they could use Votto’s value to the organization as political influence within the Reds Organization to breach the CBA and Reds Authentics. To us as collectors and as a charitable community, that would be a shame.

[chakes89]

This gem is my favorite so far:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOEY-VOTTO-S...p2047675.l2557

Does anybody really think the Reds have Votto wearing anything without a "Property Of" tag? Especially when the Authentics programs is able bank on his stuff as much as they do? $5 wristbands and tagless jerseys aside, that whole operation seems sketchy to me. This eBay seller is also one of the "game issued" glove dealers previously mentioned on here as well, so that just adds to the puzzle.

[jshortt]

This isn't totally on KLF OR Lozano. Hate to burst your bubble about Votto's angelic nature, but he has been selling everything that isn't nailed down for YEARS. Joey also doesn't seem to care whether something was truly game used or not when inscribing items (along the lines of A-Rod). He has sold several jerseys in the past that were clearly team issued, and signed/claimed them to be game used. His 2009 Civil Rights Game jersey was an example where he wasn't even on the active roster, but sold the presentation jersey he was given by the Reds as "game used." He did the same with his 1979 TBTC presentation jersey, when MLB had/has another jersey logged as game used. The inscriptions are totally on the player. Those types of situations are almost certainly: "I'm pretty sure this was used X day/year, so here ya go." Most of these dealers don't know any better since they aren't collectors, nor are they going to question their "exclusive clients," who should clearly know more about their own equipment than an agent/dealer (especially when they aren't clearly marked with a year like the spring training jersey). It's not fraud or false advertising...it's a screw up on the inscription and nothing more. If you're being charged a premium due to the wrong inscription, then that's something altogether different. The All Star bat is another story, but knowing Joey's mindset with these types of things, he very well may have used a different bat for every at-bat with the express intent of marketing them down the road. It certainly doesn't excuse KLF from sending the bat that was pictured in the auction. Just saying there is a good possibility there is more than one Votto ASG bat.

As for the jersey that doesn't have the "property of" tag, this has long been a common occurrance for players to skirt the system. They order and pay for pro-cut jerseys direct from the manufacturer, wear them for a game or two, then sell them. Were they game used? Of course they were. Is it totally on the up & up? Not at all. But there aren't any rules against it. They're not wearing bootleg jerseys, so there aren't any visible differences as far as MLB can tell. The only people that even know that property tag is there are the players, the clubhouse guys, and some of us nerdy collectors. The clubhouse guys certainly don't keep track of how many jerseys are in a player's locker at any given point, or which ones are getting worn on a daily basis. Do you think the general public cares if a player isn't wearing a team provided jersey? I have a game used Josh Hamilton jersey without a property tag, that is signed "game used," MLB hologrammed, and was won direct from the Reds/MLB via MLB auction. It happens a lot more than you think, and does not always mean that something is amiss.

In the end, this is on Joey, not Freistat. Freistat didn't take the jerseys out of the clubhouse, Votto did. He didn't have to take the jerseys out of the clubhouse, but he did...and then sold them. He didn't have to order jerseys direct from Majestic, wear them, sign/inscribe them, and sell them...but he did. At the end of the 2011 season, Joey took off and threw two jerseys into the stands after games. That also took roughly $4000-$8000 away from the Reds Community Fund, so was that action wrong? I feel for Jon on this, I truly do. I know he works his butt off to keep things legit, but who is he to tell Joey Votto that he isn't allowed to take his own jerseys out of the clubhouse and do whatever he wants with them, when there are currently (and I stress CURRENTLY) no rules against it? There is absolutely no legal recourse against KLF as far as Lozano/Votto providing these items to be sold. None. Until Bob Castellini goes into that clubhouse and tells the players they are not allowed to sell their jerseys/helmets/hats on the secondary market and it will be written into their contracts as a "breach of contract" type of offense (which would be a whole other matter), nothing can be done. For now it's on the player's conscience, and nothing more.

-Josh

[jshortt]

This gem is my favorite so far:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOEY-VOTTO-S...p2047675.l2557

Does anybody really think the Reds have Votto wearing anything without a "Property Of" tag? Especially when the Authentics programs is able bank on his stuff as much as they do? $5 wristbands and tagless jerseys aside, that whole operation seems sketchy to me. This eBay seller is also one of the "game issued" glove dealers previously mentioned on here as well, so that just adds to the puzzle.

In regards to your post Chris, I've seen it happen PLENTY of times. Adam Dunn was one of the innovators of this practice. Again, I myself own a Josh Hamilton jersey without the property tag. It happens all the time, and there is no way to tell whether a player is wearing the team provided jersey or one that he ordered with money out of his own pocket. Is Rick Stowe going to have the players show him their jersey tails on the way out to the field? I have zero doubt in my mind that Votto used this trick, and that this jersey is 100% legit.

-Josh

[chakes89]

In regards to your post Chris, I've seen it happen PLENTY of times. Adam Dunn was one of the innovators of this practice. Again, I myself own a Josh Hamilton jersey without the property tag. It happens all the time, and there is no way to tell whether a player is wearing the team provided jersey or one that he ordered with money out of his own pocket. Is Rick Stowe going to have the players show him their jersey tails on the way out to the field? I have zero doubt in my mind that Votto used this trick, and that this jersey is 100% legit.

-Josh

Yeah it doesn't surprise me that the bigger names have done it, it's all about the money these days. And I have seen it from time to time as well, doesn't mean I have to like it.

[GoTigers]

This is just my opinion, but to me the inscription on the "All Star Game Bat" reads: "Game Used, 2010 All-Star, Joey Votto".. That is much different than " "Game Used 2010 All-Star Game, Joey Votto". For what it's worth, it seems that the seller is the one claiming it was used in the ASG, not Votto.

[Birdbats]

Interesting post. When I saw this Pujols bat on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-ALBERT-...item3a7c5bb3b4) my first thought was, "No way Albert used that bat with the dark pine tar on the grip area." Then I thought maybe he changed his pine tar habits in 2012. After all, I'd documented every Pujols AB for years and years, but saw very few of his ABs once he went to Anaheim. Perhaps this was a new thing with him. But, I scrolled through just about every photo I could find of Albert taken in 2012 and couldn't find a bat with the kind of pine tar on the ebay bat. So, I'm left with two conclusions: that Albert experimented with different pine tar on this one bat and I can't find a photo; or that Albert is now willing to write "Game Used" on bats that either he didn't use, or bats that have second-player use. Whatever the case, I'd pretty much put this out of mind until reading this post. Pujols' agent, of course, is Dan Lozano.

[dplettn]

Interesting post. When I saw this Pujols bat on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-ALBERT-...item3a7c5bb3b4) my first thought was, "No way Albert used that bat with the dark pine tar on the grip area." Then I thought maybe he changed his pine tar habits in 2012. After all, I'd documented every Pujols AB for years and years, but saw very few of his ABs once he went to Anaheim. Perhaps this was a new thing with him. But, I scrolled through just about every photo I could find of Albert taken in 2012 and couldn't find a bat with the kind of pine tar on the ebay bat. So, I'm left with two conclusions: that Albert experimented with different pine tar on this one bat and I can't find a photo; or that Albert is now willing to write "Game Used" on bats that either he didn't use, or bats that have second-player use. Whatever the case, I'd pretty much put this out of mind until reading this post. Pujols' agent, of course, is Dan Lozano.

And the eBay seller 13alexrodriguez is, of course, Kevin Freistat dba KLF Sports... ARod has also been refereced in responses to this thread as an example of a player who puts "GU" on anything.

Addressing Josh's earlier comment which bursted my bubble on Votto's angelic nature...

For me, the point is that Joey Votto, even more so is a relatively young man. A baseball player. In hiring an agent, the agent should aid in his business sense. Business sense sometimes amount to squeezing every dollar in a particular situation. Business sense sometimes causes the wise to defer the dollar and demonstrate grace.

Joey Votto does not have years of business experience to help him understand when not making a few bucks on something he shouldn't try to make a few bucks on is better for his wealth than making the dollar. If the agent cares for the young athlete in a long term way, the good agent would help to inform the athlete in this regard.

[suave1477]

And the eBay seller 13alexrodriguez is, of course, Kevin Freistat dba KLF Sports... ARod has also been refereced in responses to this thread as an example of a player who puts "GU" on anything.

Addressing Josh's earlier comment which bursted my bubble on Votto's angelic nature...

For me, the point is that Joey Votto, even more so is a relatively young man. A baseball player. In hiring an agent, the agent should aid in his business sense. Business sense sometimes amount to squeezing every dollar in a particular situation. Business sense sometimes causes the wise to defer the dollar and demonstrate grace.

Joey Votto does not have years of business experience to help him understand when not making a few bucks on something he shouldn't try to make a few bucks on is better for his wealth than making the dollar. If the agent cares for the young athlete in a long term way, the good agent would help to inform the athlete in this regard.

Unfortunately your thinking along the wrong terms In today's day in age it is Business not Baseball and much as you want Votto to be morally righteous chances are Votto knows exactly what he is doing and not being so naive as you may think.

If you want to give Votto a pass because you think he is business naive, but from your own accounts and others brought up here who I agree with 100% seems like Votto understands exactly what is going on

But I do understand your frustration, sometimes we want to believe someone is so good and honest we become blind to what is really going on

[rchimes13@yahoo.com]

This isn't totally on KLF OR Lozano. Hate to burst your bubble about Votto's angelic nature, but he has been selling everything that isn't nailed down for YEARS. Joey also doesn't seem to care whether something was truly game used or not when inscribing items (along the lines of A-Rod). He has sold several jerseys in the past that were clearly team issued, and signed/claimed them to be game used. His 2009 Civil Rights Game jersey was an example where he wasn't even on the active roster, but sold the presentation jersey he was given by the Reds as "game used." He did the same with his 1979 TBTC presentation jersey, when MLB had/has another jersey logged as game used. The inscriptions are totally on the player. Those types of situations are almost certainly: "I'm pretty sure this was used X day/year, so here ya go." Most of these dealers don't know any better since they aren't collectors, nor are they going to question their "exclusive clients," who should clearly know more about their own equipment than an agent/dealer (especially when they aren't clearly marked with a year like the spring training jersey). It's not fraud or false advertising...it's a screw up on the inscription and nothing more. If you're being charged a premium due to the wrong inscription, then that's something altogether different. The All Star bat is another story, but knowing Joey's mindset with these types of things, he very well may have used a different bat for every at-bat with the express intent of marketing them down the road. It certainly doesn't excuse KLF from sending the bat that was pictured in the auction. Just saying there is a good possibility there is more than one Votto ASG bat.

As for the jersey that doesn't have the "property of" tag, this has long been a common occurrance for players to skirt the system. They order and pay for pro-cut jerseys direct from the manufacturer, wear them for a game or two, then sell them. Were they game used? Of course they were. Is it totally on the up & up? Not at all. But there aren't any rules against it. They're not wearing bootleg jerseys, so there aren't any visible differences as far as MLB can tell. The only people that even know that property tag is there are the players, the clubhouse guys, and some of us nerdy collectors. The clubhouse guys certainly don't keep track of how many jerseys are in a player's locker at any given point, or which ones are getting worn on a daily basis. Do you think the general public cares if a player isn't wearing a team provided jersey? I have a game used Josh Hamilton jersey without a property tag, that is signed "game used," MLB hologrammed, and was won direct from the Reds/MLB via MLB auction. It happens a lot more than you think, and does not always mean that something is amiss.

In the end, this is on Joey, not Freistat. Freistat didn't take the jerseys out of the clubhouse, Votto did. He didn't have to take the jerseys out of the clubhouse, but he did...and then sold them. He didn't have to order jerseys direct from Majestic, wear them, sign/inscribe them, and sell them...but he did. At the end of the 2011 season, Joey took off and threw two jerseys into the stands after games. That also took roughly $4000-$8000 away from the Reds Community Fund, so was that action wrong? I feel for Jon on this, I truly do. I know he works his butt off to keep things legit, but who is he to tell Joey Votto that he isn't allowed to take his own jerseys out of the clubhouse and do whatever he wants with them, when there are currently (and I stress CURRENTLY) no rules against it? There is absolutely no legal recourse against KLF as far as Lozano/Votto providing these items to be sold. None. Until Bob Castellini goes into that clubhouse and tells the players they are not allowed to sell their jerseys/helmets/hats on the secondary market and it will be written into their contracts as a "breach of contract" type of offense (which would be a whole other matter), nothing can be done. For now it's on the player's conscience, and nothing more.

-Josh

Couldn't agree more!