Who will be in class of 2013 BB HOF?

[vonbrandingo]

I was surprised about Piazza too. Seems like he was punished for his bacne and was lumped in with the other power hitters of the steroid era. We'll probably see him inducted sooner than the others though, since there's less evidence that he roided compared to Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc. It'll be interesting to see how they treat Thomas next year, being another power hitter from the era.

[vonbrandingo]

Correction: not evidence, but speculation.

[emann]

Best post I've read yet about this...

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/stor...ds-clemens-ped

[gingi79]

As a baseball fan I had three opinions I wanted to share for healthy discussion purposes. Many people may not agree and I understand opinions can run very strong on this topic so don't be offended if what I say contradicts your opinion.

1) Anyone older than 12 has noticed the disheartening downturn in talent and ability over the last decade when it comes to opinionated bloggers who get to call themselves "sportwriters." Rather than write articles defending why someone should or should not be in the HOF, all we get is whining about why the "writer" did (or didn't) vote for a player according to the "writer's" standards. Therefore, the entire article is actually about...the "writer". Opining in the context and pretense of relevant athletes doesn't mean you are writing about them when every sentence starts with "I". Those who can do, those who can't, critique......

2) Biggio was a very good ballplayer with an incredible ability to play numerous positions at the major league level. He was a humble, hard working player, a fan favorite who earned that title and the kind of guy everyone wants on their team. He is not however, a HOFer. I say this because his longevity and ability to stay healthy allowed him the one thing people love to use for their reasoning: the 3000 hits. Had his career lasted 2 less seasons, he'd be sitting with Dale Murphy and Tim Raines in the "close but not this year, kid" bin. Dale Murphy was the best player arguably in MLB but assuredly in the N.L. for 5 straight seasons. For another 4, he was HOF caliber. Biggio wasn't the best player on his team for any of his 5 seasons in the game. Tim Raines was the diet version of Rickey Henderson for most of his career. Raines and Murph belong in the Hall. Biggio will be the one that gets in and see opinion "1" for why.

3) Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell are the first casualties of the Steroid era. No proof, no failed tests, (hell, the guy who "sold out" MLB worked in the Mets clubhouse and DIDN'T mention Piazza) but the suspicion cloud still hangs over them. Why? Because they hit homers just like the steroid users did. They played at the same time. They both had big upper bodies. They bust be steroid users! Except...no one ever claimed they did. No one saw them, no one accused them, nothing on them in the Mitchell Report. But! Thanks to opinion "1", perhaps, maybe, in a certain light, on the 5th of May at 3:00 when the bells ring, hypothetically they did use.....No vote for you!

[trsent]

I don't get it. Baseball hasn't punished any players of the Steroid Era, but the Baseball Writers are punishing players convicted or suspected of using? Since when are Baseball Writers judge and jury? It's a load of crap.

Put the best players of the era in the Hall of Fame.

What happens when Cal Ripken admits he experiments with Steroids? Does he then get removed from the Hall? Speculation about Mike Piazza, but no proof because he wasn't tested or whatever excuse? Frank Thomas was mentioned above. Boy he grew, but he was never linked to anything, so I guess he's a shoo in?

It just isn't right. The era was part of the game. Love it or hate it, the best deserve to be appreciated.

When MLB bans players for life like Pete Rose (can we forgive an addict already, by the way?) it is one thing, but MLB hasn't punished any of these guys.

Imagine if the Pro Football Hall of Fame punished Steroid users. No one mentions that because no one cares. It was part of society for an era and it is over now but you can't punish people for using a drug that at the time was socially accepted weather anyone admits it or not.

I always say, back in the day you'd watch McGwire and Canseco and comment how they must be on Steroids and no one thought it was illegal at the time.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I don't get it. Baseball hasn't punished any players of the Steroid Era, but the Baseball Writers are punishing players convicted or suspected of using? Since when are Baseball Writers judge and jury? It's a load of crap.

Agreed. It's just a museum. No player should be in the HOF with stats tallied before 1949. Baseball fans should be reminded of that everyday.

[cohibasmoker]

There are criminal and civil cases. Both Bonds and Clemens may have walked in their Criminal cases but in their civil cases, a jury of their peers (baseball writers) saw it differently. I would hope that when Bud Selig and owners come before the same group of baseball writers, they get the same cold shoulder that Bonds and Clemens received.

Just an opinion.

[GoTigers]

Since when are Baseball Writers judge and jury?

Since the HOF was founded.. its always been up to the writers, who gets in and who's left out.

Baseball hasn't punished any players of the Steroid Era, but the Baseball Writers are punishing players convicted or suspected of using?

Yes, It's left up to the writer's to punish those convicted or suspected because baseball did't have a system in place to check for drug use and punish them themselves. And just because baseball didn't have a system in place does not mean it was okay for the players to defraud the game. I do not have a written contract at work, but I would expect to be punished for illegal drug use even though it is not spelled out.. I especially wouldn't expect to be rewarded for illegal drug use.

back in the day you'd watch McGwire and Canseco and comment how they must be on Steroids and no one thought it was illegal at the time.

I've always thought illegal drugs were illegal no matter your profession or contract.

[GoTigers]

What really gets me about this is MLB's inaction. But going forward I think there are 2 rules that would drastically decrease the use of Peds.

1. Anyone who fails a test is not elligble for the HOF period.

2. Once a test is failed, your contract is open to re-negotiaition. It's not fair to the owners who have locked up big bucks on a player after a career year(s) based on fictitious numbers (ie. Melky). Also, there is a known increase in body breakdown and a long term lucrative contract may no longer be in order.

[joelsabi]

As a baseball fan I had three opinions I wanted to share for healthy discussion purposes. Many people may not agree and I understand opinions can run very strong on this topic so don't be offended if what I say contradicts your opinion.

1) Anyone older than 12 has noticed the disheartening downturn in talent and ability over the last decade when it comes to opinionated bloggers who get to call themselves "sportwriters." Rather than write articles defending why someone should or should not be in the HOF, all we get is whining about why the "writer" did (or didn't) vote for a player according to the "writer's" standards. Therefore, the entire article is actually about...the "writer". Opining in the context and pretense of relevant athletes doesn't mean you are writing about them when every sentence starts with "I". Those who can do, those who can't, critique......

blogs are supposed to be opionion pieces and many are self centered because all the investigation they ever do is from second hand sources unlike beat writers who are covering the sport in the lockerrooms. i agree bloggers are an interesting read sometimes but are sensationalized most of the time.



2) Biggio was a very good ballplayer with an incredible ability to play numerous positions at the major league level. He was a humble, hard working player, a fan favorite who earned that title and the kind of guy everyone wants on their team. He is not however, a HOFer. I say this because his longevity and ability to stay healthy allowed him the one thing people love to use for their reasoning: the 3000 hits. Had his career lasted 2 less seasons, he'd be sitting with Dale Murphy and Tim Raines in the "close but not this year, kid" bin. Dale Murphy was the best player arguably in MLB but assuredly in the N.L. for 5 straight seasons. For another 4, he was HOF caliber. Biggio wasn't the best player on his team for any of his 5 seasons in the game. Tim Raines was the diet version of Rickey Henderson for most of his career. Raines and Murph belong in the Hall. Biggio will be the one that gets in and see opinion "1" for why.

i think 3000 is a great barometer of a great hitter. Biggio would probably have even less hits if he didnt aggressively crowd the plate which got him hit by a pitch over 300 times.

3) Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell are the first casualties of the Steroid era. No proof, no failed tests, (hell, the guy who "sold out" MLB worked in the Mets clubhouse and DIDN'T mention Piazza) but the suspicion cloud still hangs over them. Why? Because they hit homers just like the steroid users did. They played at the same time. They both had big upper bodies. They bust be steroid users! Except...no one ever claimed they did. No one saw them, no one accused them, nothing on them in the Mitchell Report. But! Thanks to opinion "1", perhaps, maybe, in a certain light, on the 5th of May at 3:00 when the bells ring, hypothetically they did use.....No vote for you!

An interesting case is Frank Thomas next year. I am expecting him to be a first time HOF as he was always a big upper bodied guy and never have I heard steroid talk about this man. Canseco never said anything bad against Clemens either.