Jim I hope you didn't perceive my post to have anything at all to do with you. By no means was I taking a cheap shot at you, I was aiming for Yankwood and his comments about bottle tipping. As for giving an opinion on Steiner I agree 100% constructive criticism is great in any business at anytime. I just feel some people on this forum are not constructive rather petty and irrational, you are not one of those people. This topic of Steiner seems to have really gotten crazy, I don't think I've ever seen 50 something posts on any topic on this page.