Mariano Rivera Steiner game save balls

[Mr. Zipper]

Hi

I am joining this discussion late. Found it through a search, but hopefully I can add a bit.

There seems to be some precedent for Rivera not carefully documenting his "last out" balls.

Earlier this year I examined this ball for purchase from another collector. When I researched save #460, I discovered it was in Oakland, so how could it be on a Yankee Stadium ball, which were only used in Yankee stadium?!? On the reverse side of the ball was a small "460" notation. The seller told me that Mo would write the save number on his final out balls after each save and signed them at a later date. And, for the most part, his true final out balls were kept by him and gifted to friends or given for charity fundraising. Typically he did not make them available through dealers.



In my view the signature and inscription is authentic, so it must be an error on Rivera's part. Any additional insight?

I have had this "save ball" in my collection for a few years, and it is my understanding the "save ball" means the same thing as "last out." That is, this is the actual ball he used to register the last out and record the save. If anyone knows differently, please chime in.



Regarding the game used balls that are generically inscribed "save #whatever"... experienced collectors understand that these are not the actual last out balls or even a ball necessarily thrown by Rivera, but rather a ball that was used at any time in a game where he registered that save. My concern is that less experienced buyers do not understand this distinction and the presence of these balls on the market actually detracts from the true 'save balls" which are quite uncommon on the open market. Given the pricing on some of these "save #whatever" balls, it appears that some sellers do not know the difference either, or they are simply being deceitful.

[dplettn]

I personally find use of the specific phrase "save ball" as highly likely to imply false use (final out) if/when someday it gets re-marketed without with the Steiner website disclaimer. For a company like Steiner there is certainly temptation to make somewhat scalable game used product look more sensational than it is. In my opinion, the date and "xxxth save game" would have been far more appropriate without endangering future unsuspecting secondary market buyers than "save ball". For a ball pitched by MO, the phrase is less troublesome but hazardous just the same.

This topic (save reference) is something I've put a lot of thought into lately as a collector of Aroldis Chapman actual "K" balls. Ultimately, I concluded only to refer at all to the save performance that the ball was part of in special situations. For example, "somersault save" is part of the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Ryan Braun during that highly memorable save appearance. That ball was on display in the Reds Hall of Fame last season.

In contrast, there is no reference to a the save performance at all in the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Puig in the first Cuban/Cuban showdown (the 27th Dodger out in Chappy's 74th save performance). The same ball incidentally was last used in the first pitch to the subsequent batter Adrian Gonzalez. Still no reference to 74th save, much less "save ball". The inscription only includes the pitch speeds because doing so isn't at all misleading. Chapman's Puig K ball was used for all three pitches.

Irregardless to how inappropriate I may think it is to use the specific phrase "save ball" on these Mo balls that weren't the last out, I do applaud Brooks Cowan and Steiner for at least discussing their choice here. Now, the onus on us members as stewards within the hobby is to help educate that certain phrases sometimes are and sometimes are not used in the most conscientious manner.

Also, some references to games are easier than others. While I don't take "somersault save" to infer final out as "save ball" does, some special games can be referenced even more easily, like "Opening Day". I think in the case of MO's achievement an inscription "xxxth save game" would be well justified. However, it reads less sensationally than "save ball".

Personally, I love inscriptions if and only if they are 100% accurate, planned and conducted with the highest standard of care. Just my two cents, of course.

[dplettn]

In contrast, there is no reference to a the save performance at all in the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Puig in the first Cuban/Cuban showdown (the 27th Dodger out in Chappy's 74th save performance). The same ball incidentally was last used in the first pitch to the subsequent batter Adrian Gonzalez. Still no reference to 74th save, much less "save ball". The inscription only includes the pitch speeds because doing so isn't at all misleading. Chapman's Puig K ball was used for all three pitches.

Correction:

In contrast, there is no reference to a the save performance at all in the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Puig in the first Cuban/Cuban showdown (the 25th not 27th Dodger out in Chappy's 74th save performance). The same ball incidentally was last used in the first pitch to the subsequent batter Adrian Gonzalez. Still no reference to 74th save, much less "save ball". The inscription only includes the pitch speeds because doing so isn't at all misleading. Chapman's Puig K ball was used for all three pitches.

[Mr. Zipper]

I personally find use of the specific phrase "save ball" as highly likely to imply false use (final out) if/when someday it gets re-marketed without with the Steiner website disclaimer. For a company like Steiner there is certainly temptation to make somewhat scalable game used product look more sensational than it is. In my opinion, the date and "xxxth save game" would have been far more appropriate without endangering future unsuspecting secondary market buyers than "save ball". For a ball pitched by MO, the phrase is less troublesome but hazardous just the same.

Just to clarify, the "save ball" displayed above from my collection is a "final out" ball and did not come from Steiner. It came from a source close to Rivera.

The Steiner game used balls are inscribed "Save #XX," NOT "save ball."

I do agree that if the Steiner examples were inscribed "Save ball," that would be highly deceptive and lead almost any collector to think they were actual final out balls. "Save #XX" is confusing enough... heaven forbid they start marketing "Save balls" that are not final out balls!

[cjw]

What are these baseballs going to be worth in 5-10 years? Will anyone care?

Care? I is my opinion that, people will not.