Probably a touchy subject...

[Billy77]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

SMITTY...

Well stated and I agree with you 100%!!!

May your Sharpie never dry out in times of need!!!

Billy

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

See - there is the problem. You are painting everyone with the same brush.

I have never pushed a child - or an adult for that matter - to get an autograph.

I have been pushed and shoved by many an adult and I have confronted the situation with the adult in an adult matter and moved on with my auto seeking.

I sleep just fine at night because I know that I am not guilty of any of the things you claim to know about 'adult' autograph seekers.

If I use that same 'broad brush' as you, you would appear to be an Elitist, 'Holier than Thou', Pious, Self Righteous, Indignant... well, you get the picture.

You're like anyone who puts down an activity, a book, a movie, a play, etc that they have never participated in, read or watched, but they believe they know everything about it.

You have no right to judge GodWulf, Dave M, myself or the countless others because for some unknown reason you seem to think you are better than other people.

Please come down from your Ivory Tower and let those who enjoy this part of the hobby enjoy it.

I have a question - when you have 'seen' grown men shove kids, have you done anything about? I doubt it.

I have. I'm a disabled vet who enjoys this part of the hobby - even when I have to deal with the jerks and the brats. You want to know what kind of autograph seeker I am? I'll tell you one story that should let you know.

At Hi Corbett in Tucson, years ago at Spring Training, there was 'kid' (he was 16 or so) in a wheelchair on the rail waiting for autographs. When Larry Walker came walking over, the crowd - mostly kids - starting literally climbin on his chair, some tried pushing him back, etc... I stepped in behind his chair (I didn't know the kid and I didn't see anyone else stepping in), reached around it and grabbed the railing and made the best shield around him I could.

When Walker got to the wall, he yelled at all the kids climbing on this kid and made them move back to give the kid room. He signed for the kid and he signed for me and he left. But I'm sure in your opinion, I should have given that autograph up to one of those 'deserving' brats that had no concern for a kid in a wheelchair.

So sorry Roady - but you don't really know jack about me or any of the other autograph seekers here - you just want everyone to fit into your very tightly constrained definition and accuse the group for the actions of the few.

I hope being so narrow minded helps you sleep well at night.

- Smitty

Smitty:

+1s on both posts.

Dave M.

[abstractheory]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

First, let me say that I'm not a big signature seeker and only desire "big name" and/or "legends of the game" sigs. This is why I only get my sigs at shows or organized events. This avoids a couple things: First, you are paying for a guaranteed sig and, of course, a chance to meet the player. Second, a nice clean autograph, suitable for display. And, finally, an organized event where people are not shoving and cutting in line or feeling like they are "entitled", for whatever reason. That being said, these are the kind of places, I feel, are most conducive/optimal for adults to obtain autographs (not saying adults shouldn't try other routes, just saying it eliminates almost everything irritating listed above...Including uncontrolled kids)

As a collector, I would never, ever dream of waiting for players after a game or before a game (however it works) for an autograph because of the reasons outlined from previous posts. I would not only expect a huge number of children to be there in wait, but, I would also expect players to sign for them first (I know I would if I was a player). Like I said, I don't know how these things work in an unorganized fashion, but, is there even such a thing as a line in these situations, or, is it really, just who can get the attention of the player first? Either way, I'm not saying people (adults) shouldn't do this, or that it's just for kids, but know I couldn't/wouldn't want to compete for an autograph within a sea of children.

Anyway, I can see both points, being a man-child (wife's term ), myself and all, but, will only get autographs at organized/paid events. While I know this isn't always an option for a lot of players, I can't believe adults don't expect anything less at unorganized situations. Unfortunately, in today's world, I expect the worst behavior from people (kids and adults, alike); that way, I'm never surprised, nor disappointed.

[godwulf]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I saw something funny at a Fall League game yesterday. Some guy handed Brewers catching prospect Adam Weisenburger a big piece of cardboard with - I kid you not - about 80 cards on it. The player was stunned. He asked why the guy had that many of his cards, and the guy just said he was an obsessive collector - that he had over 900,000 signed cards. Weisenburger took this big piece of cardboard out to the third base line where his teammates were warming up, to show it to them. Then he came back, asked the guy if he was going to take him to dinner, and proceeded to sign all the cards. It was only funny, I think, because nobody else was waiting for Adam to sign. I've had a few players take a bat that I'd brought for them to sign and go show it to their teammates, but have never seen it done with cards.

[sportsnbikes]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I get autographs sometimes at the stadium because quite frankly, I can't afford the 100+ dollar charge that the bigger players get. I only get signatures of HOF'ers or future HOF'ers.

[abstractheory]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I get autographs sometimes at the stadium because quite frankly, I can't afford the 100+ dollar charge that the bigger players get. I only get signatures of HOF'ers or future HOF'ers.

I hear that. It can be very expensive. Especially if you add inscriptions, which most charge more for. That's why I'm very, VERY selective about which ones I get (e.g: HOF'ers and future HOF'ers, like you)

[jake33]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

The "what player is that "question, really does get old. So I, wanted to go about getting auto's in a better way and get away from someone's ugly kid or casual fans that get a journeyman bullpen guy's autograph on a notecard and think it is worth $25.

I collect an autograph card of every player who ever played in the majors for the Rays and I typically just go to the team hotel in Chicago 1 or 2 days each year and am able to get all players from the active roster, except Longoria who will onyl sign at the game. I take a vacation day at work during the weekday, as there isn't that many people out getting autographs on a Wednesday in April on a cold day.

Most of those people are autograph dealers who are dirtballs, but their is usually less than 7 total peopel getting autographs and no kids around, which is really nice. Also the signatures at team hotels are way better looking than stadium autos.

Also, anything that is not a GU jersey that I have that is GU m I try tog et signed by the player and have gotten tons of gu helmets, gu balls, gu bats, gu bases, gu locker plates, and gu batting glove signed by the team hotel, so that too is pretty nice.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Jake:

I recall meeting you at US Cellular Field several years ago. It's got a small number of collectors, and virtually no one from the hotel crowd. Of course, there are the kids to deal with, but the ones I've seen are, for the most part, not bratty. If ticket prices for the Cell are a turnoff, email me privately, and I'll give you some advice to save a few bucks.

Dave Miedema

[jake33]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Thanks Dave, my issue is not really with the bratty kids at the cell, so much is it being a numbers game. A small crowd can be a pain to work around. Plus pitchers are often in the outfield and randomly move around, hitter are on schedule and overall just have a lo better luck at the team hotel.
Also in stadium autographs, are not as clean as what I pick up at the team hotel.

For getting Longoria, though, the cell is the best option.

[godwulf]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

...or casual fans that get a journeyman bullpen guy's autograph on a notecard and think it is worth $25.

I'm curious how you would know what a "casual fan" thinks his or her autos are worth. Sure, we all know people who have inflated notions of what the stuff they collect is worth to other people, but it usually doesn't become evident until they try to sell it on eBay, or at the card show.

Most of those people are autograph dealers who are dirtballs...

Speaking of dirtballs, I realized today that the guy who got the player to sign something like 80 cards at a Fall League game the other day (and it was Tony Wolters, not Meisenburger) was the son of the father-son team that I told the other story about...the dirtball auto dealers who pop up everywhere with the huge albums. So he was lying when he told the player that he was just "an obsessive collector" - like he was going to hoard all those identical signed cards.

[jake33]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Godwolf, I have heard people over the years get some random auto on notebook paper and when the player leaves, he will ask the crowd of guys getting autographs, is he thinks it would be worth somewhere in the $10-$30 range. I have had this happen 3-4 times over the last couple years with 3-4 different people

[godwulf]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Okay, that's weird. Yeah, I guess that people who, themselves, don't buy and collect a thing would likely have some strange ideas about value. Like the folks who wouldn't think of listing ANY major league jersey for less than $199, and want a grand for a run-of-the-mill HR ball of some minor star.

Back on the subject of dealers, the more I think about it, the more I think that the players who have it right are the ones who, when somebody pushes an album page with twenty cards in their face, signs ONE CARD and moves on. I would certainly sign, graciously and whenever possible, when asked, but I would have to draw the line at providing some random stranger with a living, at the cost of having to ignore a lot of folks who simply wanted my autograph because they were fans.

[jake33]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

To play devil's advocate, this is a postive I see about dealers though.

When players get made about people selling their autograph, that is understandable, but the people who are buying it are actually fans who for whatever reason are unable to meet the player to get the autograph themselves. It isnt like it goes to someone who displikes the player.

Not the best middleman opperation, at all, but the autos will eventually get into a fan's hand.... in theory.

[godwulf]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Yeah, I can understand that perspective, and I think it's a valid one...as long as - and this is important - the player's time isn't so taken up by signing twelve cards for this dealer and fifteen cards for that dealer that the player's hand starts to cramp up, or it's time to go running off into the dugout or get in his car and go home, whatever, and the fan, kid or adult, with a single ball, photo or card is left standing there with nothing. I don't know whether you've seen this happen, but I certainly have - on numerous occasions. Sometimes I was one of the fans left with nothing.

As a player, I doubt that I would begrudge some guy the chance to make a few dollars on my autograph - especially not if I were a top prospect and was probably going to be earning a high six-figure salary (or more) in the Majors soon. As a fan, though, who enjoys getting the occasional autograph, I feel justified in resenting the half-dozen to ten guys with albums standing between me and the player, potentially taking up all of his time before he gets down to my spot in the line. Sure, some of those sigs are going to end up in the collections of folks who will never be able to get close enough to the player to get one in person - but what about all the fans who were close enough to get one, but weren't able to because the dealers took up all of the player's time?

[dscards]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

My personal 'graphing rule is that if I'm going to ask for multiples (more than putting two or 3 cards on a page), I'll get one signed and then go to the end of the line the player is signing for. When the player gets to me, I say "Mr. (whoever), you already signed one for me, but if you don't mind I have a few more cards I'd love if you'd sign". A few players have said "Only one" or "I already got you" and I know they would have signed for me had I not said anything, but the majority have no problem and a few have thanked me for being honest and waiting.

Kids can be incredibly rude. It's normally the kids/teenagers that make derogatory comments to players when they don't sign, and the majority of the pushing/shoving is done by younger graphers. I'm in my early 20s and have been graphing since I was 13ish. I was always the one there hours before and always had my research done. I was never pushed by an adult (though they often used their height to reach over me) but I was shoved around/budged in front of by other kids numerous times. Even caught a few kids trying to steal items out of my backpack after I had them signed. It always amazes me how many kids never got the memo on "Mr./Mrs." and "please/thank you".

Back to the original point of this thread...it does occasionally drive me crazy to see the pages of cards that get in front of players. I missed Josh Hamilton a few years back because a kid shoved his way in front of me and then put 9 cards in front of Josh. Josh left after signing the last one. But in my mind, it's the player's choice to sign 9 for 1 person instead of 1 for 9 people and I can't be unhappy about it.