Modern NFL Jersey/Photomatching experts: Please Advise

[JDubbs73]

dplettn: First off, I think you have a fantastic shirt. I loved watching Gio at UNC, and am happy to see that success carrying over to the NFL. He put on quite a show last night.

In my humble opinion, I do not believe that the jersey was worn in the Steelers' game. Here is why:

Photo GIO-002. It is difficult to discern how the name plate alignment compares to your jersey due to the angle and close proximity of your photograph. However, in the photo from the Steelers' game there are a number of loose threads from each the "2" and "5" on both shoulders (see rectangular boxes). There also appear to be loose threads from the letters on the name plate (see circles). I would expect to see more fraying than the single thread shown in your photo, as well as on the nameplate.

Photos GIO-003 and GIO-004. It appears to me that in each of these photos the upper left and lower right of the front "5" is frayed or damaged. These markings do not appear to translate over to your jersey.

Are these by themselves an irrefutable photo match? And/or are they so unlikely in unison that taken with the front "5" Pittsburgh stain appearing faded/washed for Gio's first camera appearance in Jets game.

The stain that you are referring to in GIO-001 I believe is simply a shadowing effect from the alignment of his shoulder pads. The breast plate loops down and creates a ridge, similar to the other shaded areas on the jersey's front. Similar to your photo of the jersey's back below, where a seam crosses under the sewn on number.

I haven't heard anything from anyone regarding conclusions on the mesh (such would be appreciated).

This will be incredibly difficult without a much higher resolution photo from the game.

And still, I would be grateful to know specifically what the stain the front 5 "is". Is it typical that the deepest portions of it don't entirely launder out?

I still believe that the markings are from the ball. Dirt, sweat and coloring transferred as the ball rubs back and forth while secured against the body during a carry. These, I imagine, should wash out. Another reason I don't think the mark on the front of his jersey in the Jets' photo is a stain (rather a shadow).

Again, just my $0.02. That being said, your jersey could still be a multi-game jersey. I believe they have worn the black shirts in four games this season, including against the Patriots which was played in-between the two games you are trying to match.

Congrats on the pick-up!

[dplettn]

Jason may be right. I don't feel jersey competent enough to assert so if he is not. Either way, I'm honored to have touched and viewed it for what I'm certain it is... Gio's jersey from at least the Jets game.

I do hope this case study may be as useful a case study in the science of photo-matching as it has been to me becoming alert to so many small things on a jersey. For that reason, I am going to post pictures relevant to the many portions addressed. Whether it is a strikingly similar jersey or the same one, I think it demonstrates just how hard it is to attain true certainty on a jersey's apparent photo-match. Thanks, Jason. And I hope this will benefit the whole community.

Left then Right Shoulder Numbers on the Jersey last worn Jets @ Bengals

[dplettn]

Front 5

[dplettn]

Nameplate Letters B and A, Loose threads at bottom of front numbers, then left sleeve

[dplettn]

I am extremely grateful for your response, Jason. You may be right, or not. For me certainty is a high standard and I don’t yet have it in either direction. I really want to know the truth rather than to think I am smarter than I am. The only way that is possible is through the intellect of others being shared. The rigors of challenging the jersey being reused after Pittsburgh game in the Jets game from every angle possible are imperative. So, I thank you for taking the time to share your observations here and the fruits of your wisdom. I would be grateful for your ongoing insights, observations, challenges, etc.


Regarding the left shoulder on the jersey being analyzed, there is a long loose thread on the 2 and a shorter piece/fray which is currently laying flat / settled. Some of the things you circled on your photos appear more prominent on the jersey being examined than others.


There are also threads which appear to match up with the orange threads in the rectangle on the right shoulder (top of the two) in your image capture (GIO-002). Still from your GIO-002 capture, some of the stitching which appears to have attached the “B” to the nameplate does stand out wider in the area you circled. But, when not laying flat, the more significant oddity on the B is a loose thread in the middle of the bottom. A similarly significant loose thread is present in the cross of the nameplate’s A. It could stand out on video like the two loose threads on the left shoulder 5 if not laying flat. As for the D, I don’t see much, but if this is the Steeler game jersey whatever you see on the video may be the width of the stitching that sewed the D to the nameplate. Some are tighter in near to where others are wider out.


Regarding the Front 5 on the jersey being analyzed and the circles in GIO-003 & GIO-004… there seems to be something going on with the top left corner of the 5 on the jersey being examined. The 90 degree corner doesn’t lay particularly calmly (the 90 degree corner at the 5’s bottom is alternately sewn to the mesh domain) and there is either a stain or damage to the actual stitching atop the 5’s left side. The stain or damage to the orange stitching and portion of number does not stand out so readily though as what shows up on the wide white portion of the number.


Having watched the video from which GIO-001 came, I hesitate to believe the apparent stains on the 5 after Gio’s 2nd play and 1st contact could be a shadow effect. Totally different width, shape, sharpness from any shadow effects elsewhere. It wasn’t a momentary visual effect either. But my judgment could be clouded by what shows on the jersey collected after the Jets game. The shape of the shoulder pads could lend credence to duplicate staining on different jerseys. But, why then would it be so different on the right and left of torso? Has anyone ever seen duplicating stains separately sustained by separate jerseys?


At the front 5’s lower right, is it possible you circled two different things? I don’t know with certainty what either are. This lower part of the 5 falls into the “meshy” part of the jersey’s front and any lack of perfect spacing/flatness/balance between the mesh and the number seems to reveal rather easily and inconsistency when you move the jersey just with its own gravity. There is also some variant stitching width, stitching concentration, and a frayed loose thread in the vicinity.


I am immensely grateful for your care and time. There is still lots I don’t know about photo-matching shirts and still lots more conviction I would like to attain about this jersey. But that path is not possible without good people like yourself giving back to hobby. I am a bit less challenged for competency today than I was yesterday, thanks to you. And hopefully by the end of this project I’ll be far more competent and with greater competency be able to attain greater conviction one way or the other than I do know.


The nameplate on the jersey being examined is off center (left), at least similar to the jersey in the Pittsburgh video. However, the elasticity of the material being stretched horizontally to contain the shoulder pads makes it very difficult to precisely compare the jersey when it is off his back. The jerseys shoulders and nameplate/back are dynamic to pads in different ways. Its hard to compare where on the shoulder numbers the nameplate would begin and end when worn. And, the elasticity of the mesh nameplate feels differently tight than the elasticity of the jersey material underneath. I think I brought up this subject before but comparing nameplates’ location made it very easy to prove that (QB) Dalton’s jersey changed between Pittsburgh and Jets games. They (Dalton’s name plate locations) weren’t even close. Here, I can see similarity in the off center left, but I can’t attain certainty in either direction.


Thank you again, Jason. I am learning in this process. For me, that is the most important thing of all. And, I hope other forum users are learning too. I am very much an all or nothing kind of analytic person and for me, confirming how little I am equipped with photomatching jerseys adds to my humility. I have an oddly frustrated uncertainty about this jersey’s use in the Pittsburgh game.

[JDubbs73]

Sent you a pm. Photo matching can be an imperfect science. Obviously, like you, I welcome other opinions. Still think you have a heck of a shirt!

[dplettn]

So RB Gio Bernard finished his rookie season with roughly 5.35 yards per touch. In a timeshare, he had 8 TDs and 1209 yards from scrimmage on 226 touches (receptions and rushes). His position coach from Gio's rookie season (Hue Jackson) replaces new Redskin's Coach Jay Gruden as Bengals Offensive Coordinator for 2014. Hue Jackson repeatedly stated his desire to run the football in his introductory news conference. Jackson was Darren McFadden's offensive coordinator in 2010, McFadden's only 1000 yard season.

So two Gio Bernard jerseys are available into the hobby. The one showcased/discussed on this thread is Hunt Super Bowl auction lot 322:

http://www.huntauctions.com/Live/ima...=322&lot_qual=

I was never able to conclude that the jersey at Hunt is definitively the same jersey worn to score Gio's 1st two NFL TDs vs Pittsburgh. There are similarities, but ultimately the jersey would have only driven me insane. I went a different direction in my Bengals collection.

Factually, the Gio Bernard jersey at Goldin IS definitely a TD jersey:
http://www.goldinauctions.com/2013-G...--LOT8159.aspx

Video of the TD Gio scored wearing the jersey at Goldin:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...d-TD-reception

Both the black and white jerseys are awesome and its certainly not to speak against the items in the Hunt auction (which include a signed/inscribed photo of Gio wearing the jersey), but my guess is that the Goldin Gio does better than the one in Hunt's Super Bowl auction. Why? Simply because Goldin does a far better job!