Modern NFL Jersey/Photomatching experts: Please Advise

[dplettn]

Let me be clear. I am humbly asking for the honest and diligent opinion of others on a matter for which I don't want to jump to conclusions.

The jersey below was worn by Giovani Bernard in Sunday's 49-9 Bengal Victory. What I'm trying to determine with certainty is whether it was previously worn in the September 16th game against the Steelers.

When I witnessed the jersey, I was suprised to see the tag inside appeared 1) less than crisp, 2) to have an "L" written on it near a foldover, and 3) the tag generally looked to my novice eyes to exhibit a bit of wash wear. So, I became curious whether the jersey might have been used in any other games, Preseason or regular season (same style was worn Week 2 Sept 16th vs Steelers and Week 3 Sept 22 vs Patriots).

I was really surprised to see what looks like a much deeper but identical marking on the front "5" on the TD play high res photos from the Steeler Game. If they reused a jersey in this day in age, wouldn't any staining be washed out?

I am not sure what creates the staining on the number "5" on the front. Central to my question is whether it all washes out if a jersey is washed/reused.

I invite insights from the forum's many experts.

[dplettn]

Also, here is an image cap after Gio's first carry from the Jets game (the apparent reuse). It was the 2nd play Gio was in the game. On the first, he was lined up as a wide out and was not grabbed by anybody. The lighting is pretty bright on the telecast, but the staining is apparent.

Again, insights welcomed.

[Jags Fan Dan]

While you wait for an expert opinion, I will proffer that to me the arch on the 5 looks spot on.

[BrianK]

FWIW, it seems to me the arch on the '5' aligns with the pads, which would be in a similar position each week, whether the same jersey or a different one. I'd look at the pattern of the mesh under his arm for a potential match.

[gingi79]

Can't offer help on the possible match I will say I love this shirt. After seeing this humble. hardworking, well spoken kid on HBO's Hard Knocks, I'm cheering for him to have a long productive career. Anyone know how to get an Orange gamer of his?

[perlman9]

I know the Bengals sell through their pro shop. pretty pricey but will respond to emails. I am looking at a few Peko's from last year but steep price for sure

[JDubbs73]

Certainly possible that it could have been used in multiple games. I've seen both single and multi-use Nike gamers from the 2012 season. The multi-use jerseys did show considerable wear (holes, tears, repairs...).

However, I tend to agree with BrianK's point on the pad alignment and would guess that the markings were caused by the ball rubbing against them during carries.

[dplettn]

I am extremely grateful for your response, Jason. You may be right, or not. For me certainty is a high standard and I don’t yet have it in either direction. I really want to know the truth rather than to think I am smarter than I am. The only way that is possible is through the intellect of others being shared. The rigors of challenging the jersey being reused after Pittsburgh game in the Jets game from every angle possible are imperative. So, I thank you for taking the time to share your observations here and the fruits of your wisdom. I would be grateful for your ongoing insights, observations, challenges, etc.


Regarding the left shoulder on the jersey being analyzed, there is a long loose thread on the 2 and a shorter piece/fray which is currently laying flat / settled. Some of the things you circled on your photos appear more prominent on the jersey being examined than others.


There are also threads which appear to match up with the orange threads in the rectangle on the right shoulder (top of the two) in your image capture (GIO-002). Still from your GIO-002 capture, some of the stitching which appears to have attached the “B” to the nameplate does stand out wider in the area you circled. But, when not laying flat, the more significant oddity on the B is a loose thread in the middle of the bottom. A similarly significant loose thread is present in the cross of the nameplate’s A. It could stand out on video like the two loose threads on the left shoulder 5 if not laying flat. As for the D, I don’t see much, but if this is the Steeler game jersey whatever you see on the video may be the width of the stitching that sewed the D to the nameplate. Some are tighter in near to where others are wider out.


Regarding the Front 5 on the jersey being analyzed and the circles in GIO-003 & GIO-004… there seems to be something going on with the top left corner of the 5 on the jersey being examined. The 90 degree corner doesn’t lay particularly calmly (the 90 degree corner at the 5’s bottom is alternately sewn to the mesh domain) and there is either a stain or damage to the actual stitching atop the 5’s left side. The stain or damage to the orange stitching and portion of number does not stand out so readily though as what shows up on the wide white portion of the number.


Having watched the video from which GIO-001 came, I hesitate to believe the apparent stains on the 5 after Gio’s 2nd play and 1st contact could be a shadow effect. Totally different width, shape, sharpness from any shadow effects elsewhere. It wasn’t a momentary visual effect either. But my judgment could be clouded by what shows on the jersey collected after the Jets game. The shape of the shoulder pads could lend credence to duplicate staining on different jerseys. But, why then would it be so different on the right and left of torso? Has anyone ever seen duplicating stains separately sustained by separate jerseys?


At the front 5’s lower right, is it possible you circled two different things? I don’t know with certainty what either are. This lower part of the 5 falls into the “meshy” part of the jersey’s front and any lack of perfect spacing/flatness/balance between the mesh and the number seems to reveal rather easily and inconsistency when you move the jersey just with its own gravity. There is also some variant stitching width, stitching concentration, and a frayed loose thread in the vicinity.


I am immensely grateful for your care and time. There is still lots I don’t know about photo-matching shirts and still lots more conviction I would like to attain about this jersey. But that path is not possible without good people like yourself giving back to hobby. I am a bit less challenged for competency today than I was yesterday, thanks to you. And hopefully by the end of this project I’ll be far more competent and with greater competency be able to attain greater conviction one way or the other than I do know.


The nameplate on the jersey being examined is off center (left), at least similar to the jersey in the Pittsburgh video. However, the elasticity of the material being stretched horizontally to contain the shoulder pads makes it very difficult to precisely compare the jersey when it is off his back. The jerseys shoulders and nameplate/back are dynamic to pads in different ways. Its hard to compare where on the shoulder numbers the nameplate would begin and end when worn. And, the elasticity of the mesh nameplate feels differently tight than the elasticity of the jersey material underneath. I think I brought up this subject before but comparing nameplates’ location made it very easy to prove that (QB) Dalton’s jersey changed between Pittsburgh and Jets games. They (Dalton’s name plate locations) weren’t even close. Here, I can see similarity in the off center left, but I can’t attain certainty in either direction.


Thank you again, Jason. I am learning in this process. For me, that is the most important thing of all. And, I hope other forum users are learning too. I am very much an all or nothing kind of analytic person and for me, confirming how little I am equipped with photomatching jerseys adds to my humility. I have an oddly frustrated uncertainty about this jersey’s use in the Pittsburgh game.

[dplettn]

FWIW, it seems to me the arch on the '5' aligns with the pads, which would be in a similar position each week, whether the same jersey or a different one. I'd look at the pattern of the mesh under his arm for a potential match.

Attached are images of the mesh from both sides. I am grateful for all those who offer their expert opinions. I hope this helps to do so.

And to answer a couple of other questions. NFL Auctions and the Bengals Pro Shop do sell Bengals game used jerseys. And no, I don't know where any Gio shirts are currently available. I'm not aware of any prior Gio Bengals shirts which were available to our hobby.

Thanks to all in advance.

[dplettn]

Mesh helping to match seems hard since it would be a challenge to identically stretch it. But, here is a picture that shows his mesh from the Steeler game.

Does the mesh demonstrate a positive or negative photomatch?

For me, with jerseys negative photomatches seem so much easier to attain 100% certainty than positive. It took less than two minutes to KNOW that Dalton wore a different jersey for the Jets and Steeler games.