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  1. #1
    Senior Member 64SHEA's Avatar
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey24fan View Post
    Why don't you post the autograph in question for some on the board to give you an educated opinion. PSA fails real autographs all the time.
    Like I said the poster is signed by astronauts and lesser known ones at that. It was not sent to PSA it was sent to a highly respected authenticator in the space field.

  2. #2
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    Re: First fake autograph

    You have a degree in physics?

  3. #3
    Senior Member 64SHEA's Avatar
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Quote Originally Posted by Roady View Post
    You have a degree in physics?
    Yes, why?

  4. #4
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Well, Having a physics degree one would assume you would be highly proficient at problem solving and have the ability to solve challenges by thinking creatively. A physics degree also gives you a grounding in advanced mathematics.

    I guess I can't understand your reluctance to accept your peers suggestions.
    One who is highly proficient at problem solving would assume that getting the same answer from everyone would mean something more than they are picking on me.
    Your advanced mathematical skills should come in handy when 100% of the responses are more or less the same. Now the sample size may be small but when developing a hypothesis within the sample size it would point to you being unable to accept others opinions that differ from your own preconceived notions.
    I also have a hard time understanding why you seem able to accept at 100% an opinion by a 3rd party when your physics degree should have taught you that to have a 100% success rate in any field would be an anomaly.

  5. #5
    Senior Member 64SHEA's Avatar
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Really?
    I don't know what to say anymore.
    As I have said over and over all It wanted to know is if it was the norm or not to ask the seller for the authentication fees, especially considering they said they guaranteed it would pass. I don't know what you mean by
    One who is highly proficient at problem solving would assume that getting the same answer from everyone would mean something more than they are picking on me.
    The first two people answered my question, if Mr Moody had never posted I would have said thanks for the advice that would have been that and this thread would have lived in obscurity never to be posted in again. It seems as though your and Mr Moody's point was that I shouldn't have even sent it to an authenticator in the first place. Physics degree or not I don't trust that I can and would say I definitely cant authenticate most autographs myself. 100% of one party's opinion is better then 100% of no ones opinion. I am not sure how everyone else feels but you two have been quite clear in your opinions so I guess then I should just stop collecting autographs sell my stuff and start collecting beanie babies or something.

  6. #6
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Alot of confusion seems to be rooted in a lot of what your saying.

    Nobody here claiming they "authenticate" everything they own. Just like nobody is telling you to stop collecting. It's also pretty childish when your provided answers you clearly don't want to hear to just assume that's what people are saying.

    Personally, I find this particular situation a microcosm of where the community is heading. Place yourself in the sellers situation here.

    You bought an item the seller guaranteed authentic. You made an educated (highly educated considering your degree) opinion the piece was authentic and the seller was genuine. You received the exact item you purchased.

    So as I originally asked, where does doubt creep in? How do you get to the point where your sending this item off to be "authenticated"?

    Apart from that, what exactly was shown to you to prove it was not a genuine autograph?

    Listen, I get asking for people help on items when your not sure. I did that myself on this very forum two weeks ago.

    Your bringing up a sensitive topic for alot of us, because your essentially letting another persons opinion mean more than yours and the sellers word. Clearly based on the topic and your response, you now have zero doubt this item is fake. Thats quite a change of stance, in a short timeframe.

    As I reiterated to you, if you had something tangible to start the doubt , its a different story. Seller kept selling similar items, had a stockpile of them, got caught with fakes, sold you a different item....tons of things.

    You also said this was signed by multiple people, so did all signatures fail or just one?

    In closing, the beanie babies market has dried up in the past few years. I would suggest you take a good look at this site if your serious in moving in that field,

    http://www.barrysbeanies.com/generic32.html

    I work with a woman who collects them and just a ruthless of a field.

  7. #7
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Quote Originally Posted by 64SHEA View Post
    Really?
    I don't know what to say anymore.
    As I have said over and over all It wanted to know is if it was the norm or not to ask the seller for the authentication fees, especially considering they said they guaranteed it would pass. I don't know what you mean by The first two people answered my question, if Mr Moody had never posted I would have said thanks for the advice that would have been that and this thread would have lived in obscurity never to be posted in again. It seems as though your and Mr Moody's point was that I shouldn't have even sent it to an authenticator in the first place. Physics degree or not I don't trust that I can and would say I definitely cant authenticate most autographs myself. 100% of one party's opinion is better then 100% of no ones opinion. I am not sure how everyone else feels but you two have been quite clear in your opinions so I guess then I should just stop collecting autographs sell my stuff and start collecting beanie babies or something.
    That is not my point at all.
    My point was simply that nobody can be expected to be 100% correct when authenticating autographs.
    You declared the auto as fake, even though you really don't know if it is, simply based off another fallible persons opinion.
    All of your peers tried to point this out to you. You became defensive and here we are.
    This thread may not have gone in the direction you wanted it to and it may have veered from your original question but anyone with a physics degree should know that you have to assume that variables will evidently come up. Not many things in life go according to plan.

    As in the Scots poem by Robert Burns,

    The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
    Gang aft agley

    paraphrased -The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

  8. #8
    Senior Member cfern023's Avatar
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Quote Originally Posted by 64SHEA View Post
    Like I said the poster is signed by astronauts and lesser known ones at that. It was not sent to PSA it was sent to a highly respected authenticator in the space field.
    You sent it to an authenticator in the space field?

    Please, tell me his qualifications? I'd take other random peoples word with exemplars over his any day.

  9. #9
    Senior Member cfern023's Avatar
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    Re: First fake autograph

    Might I ask as well---

    If this a poster with autographs from lesser known astronauts, you have to ask yourself if it is profitable to sell their signatures over a more popular space walker.

    I can fake a autographed ball of 12 players from the 1998 Marlins, but what would be the point. I can just as easily fake one of the 1997 Marlins Game 7 starting lineup and make alot more money.

  10. #10
    Senior Member 64SHEA's Avatar
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    Re: First fake autograph

    I don't know where the confusion is, I asked a question, the first two people answered it that was that. I didn't even bring any of this up.
    Now I am childish because I am basing my response off what you said?

    For what it's worth, 3rd parties are just that. You either saw it signed or you didn't, it's that simple because that's the only way to know for sure. Anything else is pure speculation, and what matters most is YOURS because its in your collection.
    I wouldn't say it's distain, it's track record and a long list of errors. They equally have zero accountability
    Bear in mind , not every "authentication" company has to employ a person with a background in handwriting. Even when they do, such as Chris Morales , mistakes can still get made.
    Then tell me what your meant by that? What I took from it is authentication company's make mistakes are unreliable and should be avoided. So there not trust worthy but I can rely on random people I meet on a forum.

    I didn't make an educated guess. I saw an item I had been looking for, asked if it was authenticated he said no but guaranteed it would pass authentication.
    In any case why do you keep bringing up my degree, how does that increase my ability to spot a fake autograph?

    Where does doubt creep in? When I bought an autograph from someone I have never met over the Internet. Place yourself in the buyers situation here.
    I think I have said twice already the seller shipped it directly to the authenticator.

    He said it had too many atypical traits and formation issues.
    I understand to get a refund you should need some proof but if there is ANY doubt the same sort of question should be asked of the seller. What exactly was shown to prove it was a genuine autograph?

    Your bringing up a sensitive topic for a lot of us, because your essentially letting another persons opinion mean more than yours and the sellers word.
    What are you doing, trying to insist your opinion is right and mine is wrong.
    The sellers not my buddy from down the street he's a guy from the other side of the world. So I should trust him but not someone recommended to me by other space collectors?

    Yes all the signatures failed.

    It seems this all really comes down to someones personal level of trust. You may be fine trusting your instinct, forum members, and even the seller but I'm not. You say my own opinion should matter most well in my opinion my best chance of getting as close to certain as possible was sending it to an authenticator.

    Also the statement at the end of my last post was a hyperbole.

 

 

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