First fake autograph

[cfern023]

Like I said the poster is signed by astronauts and lesser known ones at that. It was not sent to PSA it was sent to a highly respected authenticator in the space field.

You sent it to an authenticator in the space field?

Please, tell me his qualifications? I'd take other random peoples word with exemplars over his any day.

[cfern023]

Might I ask as well---

If this a poster with autographs from lesser known astronauts, you have to ask yourself if it is profitable to sell their signatures over a more popular space walker.

I can fake a autographed ball of 12 players from the 1998 Marlins, but what would be the point. I can just as easily fake one of the 1997 Marlins Game 7 starting lineup and make alot more money.

[64SHEA]

I don't know where the confusion is, I asked a question, the first two people answered it that was that. I didn't even bring any of this up.
Now I am childish because I am basing my response off what you said?

For what it's worth, 3rd parties are just that. You either saw it signed or you didn't, it's that simple because that's the only way to know for sure. Anything else is pure speculation, and what matters most is YOURS because its in your collection.

I wouldn't say it's distain, it's track record and a long list of errors. They equally have zero accountability

Bear in mind , not every "authentication" company has to employ a person with a background in handwriting. Even when they do, such as Chris Morales , mistakes can still get made.

Then tell me what your meant by that? What I took from it is authentication company's make mistakes are unreliable and should be avoided. So there not trust worthy but I can rely on random people I meet on a forum.

I didn't make an educated guess. I saw an item I had been looking for, asked if it was authenticated he said no but guaranteed it would pass authentication.
In any case why do you keep bringing up my degree, how does that increase my ability to spot a fake autograph?

Where does doubt creep in? When I bought an autograph from someone I have never met over the Internet. Place yourself in the buyers situation here.
I think I have said twice already the seller shipped it directly to the authenticator.

He said it had too many atypical traits and formation issues.
I understand to get a refund you should need some proof but if there is ANY doubt the same sort of question should be asked of the seller. What exactly was shown to prove it was a genuine autograph?

Your bringing up a sensitive topic for a lot of us, because your essentially letting another persons opinion mean more than yours and the sellers word.

What are you doing, trying to insist your opinion is right and mine is wrong.
The sellers not my buddy from down the street he's a guy from the other side of the world. So I should trust him but not someone recommended to me by other space collectors?

Yes all the signatures failed.

It seems this all really comes down to someones personal level of trust. You may be fine trusting your instinct, forum members, and even the seller but I'm not. You say my own opinion should matter most well in my opinion my best chance of getting as close to certain as possible was sending it to an authenticator.

Also the statement at the end of my last post was a hyperbole.

[RMoody]

I think I have said twice already the seller shipped it directly to the authenticator.

He said it had too many atypical traits and formation issues.

Yes all the signatures failed.

It seems this all really comes down to someones personal level of trust. You may be fine trusting your instinct, forum members, and even the seller but I'm not. You say my own opinion should matter most well in my opinion my best chance of getting as close to certain as possible was sending it to an authenticator.

Maybe I missed that part, but you sure didn't make it emphatically clear.

Your now saying you purchased an item, had the SELLER mail that to a authentication company? You then paid the authenication fee and the item was then shipped to YOU with a rejection letter?

I don't even know how to respond to that to be quite honest.

How arrogant would a seller need to be to send a straight forgery to a authentication company. Apart from that, why would they then ship that known fake item to you, not return it to the seller or try to mediate the situation.

Like I said from the beginning the facts your just coming out with page 3 should have been made post #1.

While I still don't trust a majority of authentication company's, you bought something very uniformed apperantly. If he mailed the item to the authentication for you, you should due back everything, including fees. I'm not sure I have ever heard of a situation like that before.

[64SHEA]

I truly get it now.

Maybe I missed that part, but you sure didn't make it emphatically clear.
Your now saying you purchased an item, had the SELLER mail that to a authentication company?

From my third post

I paid with paypal and it came from overseas so I have 180 days to file a dispute. The seller also mailed it directly to the authenticator and they just received it a couple of days ago.

You then paid the authenication fee and the item was then shipped to YOU with a rejection letter?

I don't even know how to respond to that to be quite honest.

How arrogant would a seller need to be to send a straight forgery to a authentication company. Apart from that, why would they then ship that known fake item to you, not return it to the seller or try to mediate the situation.

I never said they sent it back to me, they still have it and we are both waiting on the seller who said he would get back to me when he decides what he wants done with it. I also don't know how the sellers knowledge of its authenticity without proof directly affects its actually authenticity.

Like I said from the beginning the facts your just coming out with page 3 should have been made post #1.

No, that and any other of this information should not have been said in post #1, it has nothing to do with my question. Did you even read my original post? I had one simple question, has anyone had an item come back as not authentic and if so did you ask the seller to pay the fees, that's it that's all I asked. Your the one who posted ignoring my question basically asking me why the hell I would even think of sending anything to an authenticator.

I always wondered how someone gets dragged into a back and forth like this but I understand now.
Again I guess this is my fault for asking a question.

I'm done with this BS. Close the thread, delete it, print it out and hang it above you mantle for all I care. I truly enjoy coming on this site when I get home from work to see whats going on and have had nothing but good dealings with members in relation to game used items but I guess I have learned my lesson. Don't ask a question in the autograph thread unless you willing to blindly accepted the opinion of certain members about a topic that wasn't even part of your question.

In the words of Mick Foley
Have a nice day!

I cant be sucked back into this again my time is to valuable. Responded if you feel you must but I will never look at this thread again. If someone feels they have something of value to add they can pm me.

[64SHEA]

Might I ask as well---

If this a poster with autographs from lesser known astronauts, you have to ask yourself if it is profitable to sell their signatures over a more popular space walker.

I can fake a autographed ball of 12 players from the 1998 Marlins, but what would be the point. I can just as easily fake one of the 1997 Marlins Game 7 starting lineup and make alot more money.

Without looking it up can you name all 24 men who have been too the moon? Outside of Armstrong, Aldrin, and maybe Young almost all astronauts are unknown to the none enthusiast yet even the most unknow sell for at least $100.

[64SHEA]

I didn't want to post this because once again it had nothing to do with my question but I contacted the seller and he responded before I even posted this thread. He said while he was surprised he wouldn't question the opinion of the authenticator. I also received the refund before he even replied.

I always wondered how someone gets dragged into a back and forth like this but I understand now.
Again I guess this is my fault for asking a question.

I'm done with this BS. Close the thread, delete it, print it out and hang it above you mantle for all I care. I truly enjoy coming on this site when I get home from work to see whats going on and have had nothing but good dealings with members in relation to game used items but I guess I have learned my lesson. Don't ask a question in the autograph thread unless you willing to blindly accepted the opinion of certain members about a topic that wasn't even part of your question.

In the words of Mick Foley
Have a nice day!

[64SHEA]

You sent it to an authenticator in the space field?

Please, tell me his qualifications? I'd take other random peoples word with exemplars over his any day.

I should have been more clear, he is an authenticate of space related autographs.